[AC] Muchi Muchi Pork

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[AC] Muchi Muchi Pork

Postby EOJ » Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:21 am

Cave released its midterm annual earnings report yesterday, for the fiscal year ending in May 2007. In the report they outline their strategy for the rest of the year and beyond. Here is the report (top link on the page):

http://www.cave.co.jp/ir/index.html

I read through it, and on page 20 they mention their arcade strategy. They will continue medal games, and apparently move into some online arcade stuff (?), but they clearly state they will "continuously release Arcade shooting games". They say they plan to maintain their Arcade shooting games as the "top brand", and they will not release any other genre of games (exclusively shmups).

Looks like we can look forward to more Cave games this year. :D

The report does not mention any specific shooting game, and there is no mention whatsoever of any plans to have future console ports. They do, however, mention something about that Loverny game going to the Nintendo DS after its mobile phone release.

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Re: [ETC] More Cave Arcade shmups coming this year

Postby Recap » Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:29 am

Thanks for sharing. That's interesting and somewhat surprising. Glad to hear about the Loveny no Ehon project, even if I find no differentiations between a DS and a mobile phone at the end.





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Postby icycalm » Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:31 pm

Great news.

And Recap, dude, you say the most outrageous things sometimes. DS. Cellphone. lol

At least if it comes out on DS we'll actually get to play it :)
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Postby Gaijin Punch » Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:30 am

I'm kind of w/ Recap on this one. I bought a DS for some stupid reason. Even the few games that I bought and liked Starfi 4, Princess Peach, Akumajo, I never play. It feels more natural playing it on a proper display, w/ a controller, etc. etc.

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Postby CTN » Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:36 pm

So you don't like handheld gaming at all?

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Postby Recap » Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:09 pm

Is there any reason to do it?




The handheld falacy, Japan vs the West, the incapabilities of 3D graphics, the scanlines/true-low-res thing, the RGB signal, arcade sticks vs joypads, the truth behind emulation... If I had published a book on these subjects like ten years ago maybe I'd be richer now.

Whatever.

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Postby Gaijin Punch » Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:39 pm

I think handheld games are good only on the move. I walk mostly at the moment. Train? Yeah, sometimes, but handheld games in 10-15 minute increments... no thanks. I'd rather play music and doze out. Great for airplanes, and that's about it.

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Postby CTN » Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:46 pm

If there is a game designd especially for a handheld system like Boktai or Mario vs. Donkey Kong then there is no other way to play this game properly.
On the handheld the game has the right resolution, the right button layout etc.

Games can only feel natural on the hardware they were intended to run in the first place.

Handhelds have their justification when they get original software.

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Postby Ganelon » Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:51 pm

Well, one thing I can say about the DS Lite specifically is that the controls are nowhere near ideal for action games. The screen stresses my eyes a lot, the resolution sucks, and the sound still isn't great.

But hey, since it seems to be THE platform for new 2D stuff going forward, I've got no choice but support it. It's not like the early 90s where I could just avoid the GB and play all the great console and arcade games.

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Postby Recap » Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:39 pm

CTN wrote:If there is a game designd especially for a handheld system like Boktai or Mario vs. Donkey Kong then there is no other way to play this game properly.
On the handheld the game has the right resolution, the right button layout etc.

Games can only feel natural on the hardware they were intended to run in the first place.

Handhelds have their justification when they get original software.


That's part of "the fallacy", indeed. You also have the "right resolution and button layout" on a console. You just need the proper setup. Specific controllers can also be made for TV systems. As for Boktai, it's like the silliest concept for a video-game I heard in years, but maybe it's me.

I'm playing some GBA stuff these days via emulation. Made in Wario, for instance, was one of those I played on its native hardware at its moment and thought it was kind of fine as a handheld game since a big screen and an arcade stick couldn't do much more for it. I was wrong, though. Any "original software" for a handheld you can think of could be much better on a TV system. That's a fact which leaves no room at all to be questioned. Hence the drama.



VBut hey, since it seems to be THE platform for new 2D stuff going forward, I've got no choice but support it.


That's the other part of "the fallacy". If you keep on supporting handhelds, you're telling the devs you're happy with it and don't need their games on a TV system.

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Postby icycalm » Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:44 pm

What I find outrageous is the following comment:

"I find no differentiations between a DS and a mobile phone at the end."

Of course I agree that there's almost no reason for anyone to play games on a handheld, except if you are forced to do so by circumstances (on a plane, being stationed in Iraq, etc.)

But to say that there are no differences in the playing experience between a current cellphone and a DS is another thing altogether.
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Postby Ganelon » Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:04 pm

Recap wrote:That's the other part of "the fallacy". If you keep on supporting handhelds, you're telling the devs you're happy with it and don't need their games on a TV system.


Um, no, I'm thankful that at least there's some bastion for 2D games. I've completely ignored handhelds for over a decade and a half now, hoping they'd just disappear. Did they? No, now they're just the most popular and dominant game platforms out there.

It doesn't matter whether I support them or not; there's millions of other people who are already willing to do that. You may as well go with the flow or else struggle futilely against the change.

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Postby icycalm » Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:24 pm

Yes, if a few of us refrained from buying handheld games we would indeed be involved in a futile struggle.

But the point Recap is making is that most people simply do not realize that handheld gaming largely sucks. Especially when it's used as a platform for the kind of games that evolved in the arcades and on home consoles.

So the point is to educate as many people as you can, and hope that eventually there will be a shift in tactics among developers.

Forum discussions are a start. Those among us who have websites should also mention this. Myself, I plan to review a bunch of PSP shmup collections and give them shitty scores, explaining in the reviews that those games are practically unplayable with the PSP's d-pad.

Of course my site is only read by a few people, but imagine what would happen if my reviews appeared on, say, IGN for example. Within a short time hundreds of thousands of people would realize why handhelds suck for arcade games, and publishers would start thinking about changing their tactics...

That's all it takes, really, to make a big change. A few reviews on a major website.
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Postby Recap » Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:38 pm

Pretty much what Icycalm said. I discussed the other day with a reviewer from a popular Spanish mag the point of writing that "Metal Slug Anthology [PSP] is pixel-perfect and idoneous for the handheld format" on a well-known forum. I don't see him stating such a stupidity again after our public conversation.



icycalm wrote:But to say that there are no differences in the playing experience between a current cellphone and a DS is another thing altogether.


Not in essence, if you ask me. On a mobile phone, they can't force you to use a stylus or to watch two screens at once, at least.

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Postby Ganelon » Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:00 pm

Many handheld buyers are also kids or casual fans, who care not about accuracy and purchase specifically based on portability. They won't even read game magazines and websites. And try as you might, it'll be hard to gain enough popularity for peer pressure to shower them with discontent. Were you ever young enough to be a kid and want fun on the go? When you're on a trip or late at night where you can't watch any more TV, what kid wouldn't want a handheld?

Nevertheless, I applaud your efforts. Rest assured that given the chance, I don't mind ridiculing the horrendous concept of handhelds.

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Postby Gaijin Punch » Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:37 am

Were you ever young enough to be a kid and want fun on the go? When you're on a trip or late at night where you can't watch any more TV, what kid wouldn't want a handheld?


Is this a good time to mention I saw a woman, most likely in her upper 20's, maybe lower 30's, playing Nintendogs on a rush hour train most likely on her way home from work? She was rubbing the shit out of that damn touch screen.

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Postby Recap » Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:16 pm

[url=http://www.kisnet.or.jp/‾otake/note/c_note.cgi]As soon as the next month[/url].








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Postby CIT Seven Force » Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:44 pm

The character will be moe-kei and the title is "******* Pork"?

Jesus fucking Christ, this company is turning into fan-service central... :roll:

I think it's pretty much official at this point that Cave's exciting and original phase is over.

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Postby nem » Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:00 pm

The logic (or the lack of it) in this thread baffles me. However, since it's mostly due to Recap's tepid responses, atleast it does not surprise:

Recap wrote:Any "original software" for a handheld you can think of could be much better on a TV system. That's a fact which leaves no room at all to be questioned. Hence the drama.


That's just not true. So what you're saying is that if a handheld would be wired up to a TV and a joystick would be attached to it, it would magically make all the games "much better"?

Heard of the Gameboy Player? I'm sorry, but a good game doesn't become great even with this wizardry.

OK, so, maybe you meant that if the developers would have made this particular game for a 'proper' console, "it could be much better on a TV system". Maybe. It's possible, but it's not a logical conclusion. It's a bit like saying that original Super Mario Bros would have been better on the SNES. Would it really have been better?

See, this is what baffles me. You all know what handhelds are. The idea is that you take the console, the controller and the TV and merge these in to one and make it portable. If someone could explain to me how this makes it worse (or even changes anything at all), please do.

You also (should) understand when something is made smaller it usually has to be simplified. Less space means less electronic parts, like transistors that make up processors. Plus, it all has to be powered by a battery. So handhelds will always be a generation behind. It's like the NES being compared to the SNES. But you still enjoy playing NES games, don't you?

That's the other part of "the fallacy". If you keep on supporting handhelds, you're telling the devs you're happy with it and don't need their games on a TV system.


Again, that's just not true. They're not mutually exclusive. If you're not buying a title you're basically saying "I'm sorry, I wouldn't enjoy this game". Why you wouldn't enjoy it, you're not telling. Maybe it's because it's on a handheld, or maybe it's because you don't like the genre, the style of play, the developer, the publisher or the color of the box it comes in.

icycalm wrote:Myself, I plan to review a bunch of PSP shmup collections and give them shitty scores, explaining in the reviews that those games are practically unplayable with the PSP's d-pad.


So it's unplayable due to the digital pad? Fair enough, but this wouldn't help your cause at all. Hypothetical example: The Dreamcast has an absolutely atrocious D-pad. If the controllers were hardwired to the consoles (think of the original Fami), you could make this exact same statement about Border Down or any other Dreamcast shooting game as well. The fact that the PSP has an internal screen and is powered by a battery does not make the Gradius games worse.

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Postby icycalm » Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:45 pm

Dude I can't even begin to reply to your post. You are blissfully unaware of what we are talking about. I'll only reply to your first point cause I simply don't have the energy to do any more than that.

So what you're saying is that if a handheld would be wired up to a TV and a joystick would be attached to it, it would magically make all the games "much better"?


Not better. Simply playable. And then not all games -- only the ones who were designed to be played with a stick on a large screen. The rest of the games would remain essentially unaffected by this change.

Of course the above paragraph is implied in what I've written in this thread so far, so I am only repeating myself, but I guess in a videogame forum it's too much to expect people to pay some attention to what they read.




Now I suggest we try and keep this thread on-topic.
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Postby Recap » Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:06 pm

So now the USELESS random people with poor internet obsessions and who systematically miss the point get baffled. Oh the irony.





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Postby Gaijin Punch » Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:51 pm

citcelaid wrote:I think it's pretty much official at this point that Cave's exciting and original phase is over.


It's most likely a Yagawa game = I'm not that excited anyway.

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Postby Macaw » Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:09 am

I'm guessing its some kind of retarted cooking themed shooter with generic loli anime characters and non stop high pitched female voices that would annoy even the most diehard otaku's. And when they present it at the show it will be accompanied with an incredibly annoying theme song that will play over and over and over..

And despite these shortcomings it will probably be an awesome game.
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Postby JoshF » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:20 am

I hope not. Maybe it's DoDonPork. O_o

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Postby nem » Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:21 am

icycalm wrote:Not better. Simply playable. And then not all games -- only the ones who were designed to be played with a stick on a large screen. The rest of the games would remain essentially unaffected by this change.


"handheld gaming largely sucks", and your making this declaration based on arcade ports?

:?

Now I suggest we try and keep this thread on-topic.


I found this amusing, since you were the one going off on a tangent. I'm just replying to the inane ramblings going on.

Recap wrote:So now the USELESS random people with poor internet obsessions and who systematically miss the point get baffled. Oh the irony.


Good argument, champ. No wonder you have been banished from every other forum except this one. And this:

Recap wrote:The handheld falacy, Japan vs the West, the incapabilities of 3D graphics, the scanlines/true-low-res thing, the RGB signal, arcade sticks vs joypads, the truth behind emulation... If I had published a book on these subjects like ten years ago maybe I'd be richer now.


amuses me to no end!


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