[DS] Bangaioh Tamashii / Bangai-O Spirits

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Postby Recap » Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:41 pm

To each his own, I guess.






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Postby Gaijin Punch » Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:06 pm

Recap wrote:To each his own, I guess.


You got dat right! ;)
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Postby Greatsaintlouis » Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:15 pm

Recap wrote:
Greatsaintlouis wrote:Blasphemy though it may be in this thread, I really have no qualms about the DS as a platform


It's not "blasphemy", but as I said, either, you don't have a clue about video-games or you just don't like them too much. Whichever it is, it's perfectly fine, anyhow.


A good deal of the discourse in the this thread has been you being rather rude to people because they don't unequivocally agree with you, and I'm not sure what exactly the point of that is. I'm certain it's not at all called for, though. It's one thing to state an opinion and your reasons for having it in a civil manner, and it's quite another to be condescending and belittling of people simply because they don't share your views which are being presented as inarguable fact.

I mean, it's not like people here are trying to argue facts with you like what kind of processor the DS uses, it's just people saying if they're interested in the game or not and idly speculating on what it will be like. It's on a handheld, which some people like and some people don't, but there's not a one of us whose preference in the matter is 'right' or 'wrong', nor does that preference make anyone uneducated, clueless, or anything like that. In the grand scheme of life it's an utterly inconsequential discussion on a tiny corner of the internet, so why turn it into something hostile, confrontational, and extremely unwelcoming for those who want to participate?
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Postby Recap » Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:32 pm

Gaijin Punch wrote:You got dat right! ;)


Me? I always keep that in mind, seriously.




A good deal of the discourse in the this thread has been you being rather rude to people because they don't unequivocally agree with you, and I'm not sure what exactly the point of that is. I'm certain it's not at all called for, though. It's one thing to state an opinion and your reasons for having it in a civil manner, and it's quite another to be condescending and belittling of people simply because they don't share your views which are being presented as inarguable fact.

I mean, it's not like people here are trying to argue facts with you like what kind of processor the DS uses, it's just people saying if they're interested in the game or not and idly speculating on what it will be like. It's on a handheld, which some people like and some people don't, but there's not a one of us whose preference in the matter is 'right' or 'wrong', nor does that preference make anyone uneducated, clueless, or anything like that. In the grand scheme of life it's an utterly inconsequential discussion on a tiny corner of the internet, so why turn it into something hostile, confrontational, and extremely unwelcoming for those who want to participate?


A good advise: You'd do better without assuming things from my replies to others. You just don't know if I have my reasons for being "rude" or "condescending". As you say, this is a tiny corner of the internet, and the internet is indeed huge.

As for the rest, I indeed was just exposing inarguable facts or expressing my feelings, much like others do.

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Postby Gaijin Punch » Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:43 pm

GSL: Recap hates handheld gaming and all it stands for. Not a whole lot of other people here like it. I have a DS... and like 3 games for it.

Recap: Saying someone knows nothing of games or doesn't like them b/c they're looking forward to a DS game is short-sighted at best, even for you, I'm going to have to say.
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Postby Recap » Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:58 pm

Gaijin Punch wrote:Recap: Saying someone knows nothing of games or doesn't like them b/c they're looking forward to a DS game is short-sighted at best, even for you, I'm going to have to say.



Recap wrote:Getting excited for the next Treasure game being on a handheld instead of just the opposite is either not having a clue about video-games or not liking them too much.


Recap wrote:
I really have no qualms about the DS as a platform


It's not "blasphemy", but as I said, either, you don't have a clue about video-games or you just don't like them too much. Whichever it is, it's perfectly fine, anyhow.



It's a little bit different from what you said, if you ask me.

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Postby Gaijin Punch » Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:07 pm

Comes off a bit different (I didn't read the original post), but fair enough.
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Postby dcharlie » Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:23 pm

It's not "blasphemy", but as I said, either, you don't have a clue about video-games or you just don't like them too much. Whichever it is, it's perfectly fine, anyhow.


wow.

i realise everyone is giving you lots of room here, but seriously - aren`t you in your 30s? hasn`t age and experience taught you anything other than arrogance and elitism?

for me , the people who aren`t worried about platform and are willing to judge a game on its individual merits are the new hardcore.

The old hardcore dinosaurs are dead and it`s their own fault because they are too far up their own arse.
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Postby Recap » Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:28 pm

Hey, Charlie, it didn't take you this long to start the name calling there at Fanitsu. Afraid of the ban stick? ;)





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Postby dcharlie » Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:31 pm

Hey, Charlie, it didn't take you this long to start the name calling there at Famitsu. Afraid of the ban stick?


how about you address my post instead ?

i hardly see how being banned by Japjac for attacks on your arrogance (a positive trait in Japjacs eyes) has any bearing on this (and i guess my "verbose" response was partly to do with it!)

but nice to see the tacit acceptance that you consider yourself hardcore and up your own arse! ;)

for the better good - probably best i bail out. GP - apologies for the upset.

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Postby Recap » Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:35 pm

Define "hardcore", please?






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Postby Gaijin Punch » Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:12 pm

I'm not going to make this another Shmups or Assembler. I don't get upset, I don't lock threads, and I don't ban anyone other than spammers ( although one user did earn himself a custom title of "Resident Idiot" which was later changed to "Resident Fuck You!").

I don't particularly care for the heads butting, but hey, it's the internet. It's bound to happen.
Rade wrote:Finally received a reply by posting in a thread at that Gaijin forum:

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Postby Kaneda » Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:59 pm

GP, is there a way to implement an ignore feature? I don't post a lot here but it would make for a more enjoyable experience to not have to deal with passive aggressive insults killing the fun. I know that's how the internet likes to roll, but I'm over it and just want to talk games and nerdy shit in peace with other like-minded folks.

Anyways, the thought of Treasure and handhelds doesn't exactly conjure up too many positive thoughts for me, but Bangai-O does so this could be just fine. Thanks for the heads up, jiji.

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Postby Greatsaintlouis » Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:49 pm

Gaijin Punch wrote:GSL: Recap hates handheld gaming and all it stands for. Not a whole lot of other people here like it. I have a DS... and like 3 games for it.


Well yeah, I realize he's not all that fond of it, and I know the the majority opinion here is that handhelds are pretty meh, and I'm totally fine with that, because it's all opinions based on personal preferences, which can neither be right nor wrong.

It's just the arrogance of people taking said opinions as fact and saying things along the lines of "Oh, you like handhelds so you obviously are clueless and don't really like gaming" that really gets under my skin. I mean, I don't see any reason why stating a preference should set anyone up for ridicule and belittlement.
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Postby Gaijin Punch » Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:25 pm

Kaneda wrote:GP, is there a way to implement an ignore feature?


PHPbb has some mods but I've never implemented them. Seemed like it would just create confusiong.
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Postby Recap » Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:39 pm

Greatsaintlouis wrote:Well yeah, I realize he's not all that fond of it, and I know the the majority opinion here is that handhelds are pretty meh, and I'm totally fine with that, because it's all opinions based on personal preferences, which can neither be right nor wrong.

It's just the arrogance of people taking said opinions as fact and saying things along the lines of "Oh, you like handhelds so you obviously are clueless and don't really like gaming" that really gets under my skin. I mean, I don't see any reason why stating a preference should set anyone up for ridicule and belittlement.


Because indeed there ARE ridicule and belittled "preferences"? Need I to bring back once again the simile of watching movies on a laptop for anyone who supposedly loves that art form? C'mon, don't make me. Handheld gaming is "ridicule and belittled" by itself because it's a poor attempt to replicate the _true_ gaming experience. That's a fact, I'm afraid. You either, are missing that (= "are clueless") or still prefer portability over substance (= "don't like video-games too much"). That hardly debatable point is all I said about you, while I also added it's "perfectly fine" (= "to each, his own"), on the other hand. Do you feel that it sets you up "for ridicule and belittlement"? Well, maybe you should ask yourself why, then!

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Postby jiji » Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:06 pm

Recap wrote:Handheld gaming is "ridicule and belittled" by itself because it's a poor attempt to replicate the _true_ gaming experience. That's a fact, I'm afraid. You either, are missing that (= "are clueless") or still prefer portability over substance (= "don't like video-games too much").

What is the "true" gaming experience? Are you suggesting that there's only one viable gaming experience, and that anyone who enjoys gaming any other way is clueless? Seems a rather narrow view to me, and its one you'd have better luck not trying to force on others.

One doesn't have to prefer portability over substance. You can have it both ways. I buy few portable games these days, but the ones I do buy are generally titles of substance. Sekaiju no Meikyuu is one of the most fulfilling RPGs of the past decade on any platform, for me. Advanced Guardian Heroes is divisive to say the least, but I found it more fulfilling and interesting than the Saturn game. And with Bangaioh Tamashii, we'll probably get to see just how substantive portable action games can get.

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Postby Recap » Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:21 pm

jiji wrote:What is the "true" gaming experience? Are you suggesting that there's only one viable gaming experience, and that anyone who enjoys gaming any other way is clueless? Seems a rather narrow view to me, and its one you'd have better luck not trying to force on others.

One doesn't have to prefer portability over substance. You can have it both ways. I buy few portable games these days, but the ones I do buy are generally titles of substance. Sekaiju no Meikyuu is one of the most fulfilling RPGs of the past decade on any platform, for me. Advanced Guardian Heroes is divisive to say the least, but I found it more fulfilling and interesting than the Saturn game. And with Bangaioh Tamashii, we'll probably get to see just how substantive portable action games can get.


Oh. So you indeed want me to explain the obvious. You want me to explain that handheld gaming is a _substitute_ and not an alternative. You want me to explain that any of those games you mention there, like 99% of handheld games, would be a way lot better on a proper system. How boring.

And stop fooling yourself. It's "Bangai-O Spirits".


Edit: Silly OT question: You must say "it's a poor attempt at replicating" instead of "it's a poor attempt to replicate ", right?

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Postby dcharlie » Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:58 pm

Edit: Silly OT question: You must say "it's a poor attempt at replicating" instead of "it's a poor attempt to replicate ", right?


"it`s a poor attempt at replicating" and you were using a movie example as an analogy, not as a simile.


anyways, i find this mindset interesting. Especially if you use the movie an analogy.

If we accept that gaming (the creation of) is an equivalent art - and i don`t see why it shouldn`t be albeit much less mature - then surely form and medium ("restriction") are as much a part of gaming art as they would be any other art form? Both are facets of the art.

What i further don`t understand is that if , using the movie analogy provided, you must always strive for the highest fidelity, then why aren`t the top end games consoles/PC`s championed by hardcore gamers such as recap?

It`s interesting, because recap`s analogy sounds suspiciously like the PS2 generation kids argument of "why is this still on arcade hardware?" or "why is this in 2d?!" - it ignores form, it ignores work with in boundaries, it ignores the gameplay before you`ve even played it.

If gaming truely is an art, then there is no such thing as a "proper" platform.

You want me to explain that handheld gaming is a _substitute_ and not an alternative.


*shrug* the game play experience, i`d expect, would likely not improve that much for most of the games on the DS (for example) and in a lot of cases there might even be the case that the experience could be degraded. Mario Kart being one example which springs to mind (the DS version destroys every other version to date, and has 16 player same room link up play).

Right now, i`d say that most the interesting games coming out of Japan are on the DS. I`m not sure if this is the case, but if you are precluding yourself from DS releases because you don`t like the form then that`s unfortunate. You`re missing out on some of the best games ever made.
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Postby Greatsaintlouis » Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:48 am

I've come to the conclusion that Recap's outspoken opinion on the subject of handheld gaming is utterly inconsequential and irrelevant in the way it's presented and pressed on others. If anyone else feels the same, let's just ignore him, as this is no longer--if it ever was--a civil discussion about the game or platform strengths when people are being insulted for enjoying a particular method of entertainment. I don't even need to mention the particularly glaring fallacy in comparing games designed for handhelds to a videophile watching DVDs on an old laptop screen, and I have no patience for being called 'clueless' or anything of the sort for not buying into that sort of forced groupthink.

So anyways and more importantly, has any information about the title surfaced with regards to the second screen's use? This is Treasure's third DS title after two Bleach installments, correct? To what use did they put the second screen, and did they introduce any touch gimmicks there?
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Postby ZebraAirforce » Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:50 am

It used as a map of the level (big surprise!)
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Postby Recap » Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:35 am

Greatsaintlouis wrote:games designed for handhelds


See now? You're clueless. And given that you fail once again to get the whole idea, not very intelligent. But hey.







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Postby ZebraAirforce » Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:16 pm

Recap wrote:
jiji wrote:What is the "true" gaming experience? Are you suggesting that there's only one viable gaming experience, and that anyone who enjoys gaming any other way is clueless? Seems a rather narrow view to me, and its one you'd have better luck not trying to force on others.

One doesn't have to prefer portability over substance. You can have it both ways. I buy few portable games these days, but the ones I do buy are generally titles of substance. Sekaiju no Meikyuu is one of the most fulfilling RPGs of the past decade on any platform, for me. Advanced Guardian Heroes is divisive to say the least, but I found it more fulfilling and interesting than the Saturn game. And with Bangaioh Tamashii, we'll probably get to see just how substantive portable action games can get.


Oh. So you indeed want me to explain the obvious. You want me to explain that handheld gaming is a _substitute_ and not an alternative. You want me to explain that any of those games you mention there, like 99% of handheld games, would be a way lot better on a proper system. How boring.

And stop fooling yourself. It's "Bangai-O Spirits".


Edit: Silly OT question: You must say "it's a poor attempt at replicating" instead of "it's a poor attempt to replicate ", right?
No, Recap, you are the clueless one. Anyone who has ANY interest in videogames and isn't a total mindless loser knows that the Virtual Boy is the ONLY true gaming experience. Why do you even bother playing games on a monitor when it's just a pointless quest to mimick the perfection of Virtual Boy? Anything else is just a placebo for the true depth of experience that only Virtual Boy can provide.

Get a clue!
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Postby Greatsaintlouis » Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:44 pm

ZebraAirforce wrote:It used as a map of the level (big surprise!)

I guessed as much, but just had to ask.

Not that level maps on the second screen bug me, especially if it means I no longer have to press any sort of map button, but I'd really like to see some titles that use both screens at once for a bit of the action. I'm surprised nobody's attempted a vertical shooter yet using the screens for a fake tate mode. It might go over horribly, but I'd at least like to see it tried.
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Postby dcharlie » Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:53 am

So anyways and more importantly, has any information about the title surfaced with regards to the second screen's use? This is Treasure's third DS title after two Bleach installments, correct? To what use did they put the second screen, and did they introduce any touch gimmicks there?


agreed on previous recap approach. No ignore function, but i agree we should just no longer respond to any posts of his looking for unwarranted attention.

No details as of yet i don`t believe - will be hitting TGS on thursday and we have the annual pre-tgs party and i believe some of the Treasure staffers will be there so may be able to get some answer then.

Either that or i wait for the japanese press guys to get piss drunk and start asking them. lol.

Worst case, we should know for certain on Thursday (assuming Bangaioh Tamashii is there)

Isn`t the DS fantastic? would we even be seeing a new Bangaioih title with out the low dev cost, high penetration DS platform?
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