The ahem.... Must Have PSP titles

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icycalm
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Postby icycalm » Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:57 pm

zinger wrote:Okay, I read your whole article - very interesting read. Not having spent much time with RPGs (or well, strategy games), dismissing them as repetative, boring, taunting and frustrating - I learned a whole lot. Guess I did miss your point, sorry for bashing at you.


No worries.

But still, your reaction is a somber reminder of the kind of reaction I can expect from gamers in general. And at least you didn't start calling me names.

And the thing is, a lot more people are interested in "RPGs" than in arcade games, so I am expecting quite a bit more hatemail this time around. It should be fun!
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Postby RyanDG29 » Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:50 pm

icycalm wrote:You are making a pretty massive mistake here.

I did not "base" my article on a Wikipedia article. I do not need Wikipedia to tell me what is and what is not an RPG. I've been playing RPGs for more than 15 years (DMing campaigns in several settings for 5 of those years), and I know all there is to know about them.

The only reason I added the Wikipedia definition at the top (which I edited for clarity) is in order to help people understand what I am saying more easily. I could have written my own definition, but then people would come in and say "And who are you to define what is and what is not an RPG?" So I give them the Wikipedia definition, which also happens to be Gary Gygax's and Dave Arneson's definition, and my definition, and the definition of everyone who has ever created or played an RPG in their lives.

If the "Wikipedia" bothers you so much you can mentally block it and substitute it with "Alex Kierkegaard" or "Encyclopedia Britannica" or "God". It makes no difference.




I understand what you are trying to do here, but when you post this article (I enjoyed it btw, but that's mostly because I come from the same sort of mindset as you in regards to RPGs) you are going to end up being torn to shreds by people who simply wish to define an RPG as the next big SquareEnix release. I applaud you for your efforts of course, but it's going to be brutal. :)

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Postby icycalm » Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:53 am

RyanDG29 wrote:when you post this article you are going to end up being torn to shreds by people who simply wish to define an RPG as the next big SquareEnix release. I applaud you for your efforts of course, but it's going to be brutal. :)


How exactly will I be "torn to shreds"? Hatemail I just delete. Assholes who come to my forums I ban and I delete all their posts. If they go to some other forum/site/blog to whine then they have to link me, which means I get more visitors and, ultimately, more readers.

It's a win/win situation for me.

And my masterplan for getting EVERYONE on the internet to read this is simple. I will be the first person to review the big JRPGs from now on (Crisis Core, Lost Odyssey, etc.), and there will be a period of 1-2 months during which the only site with a review on the internet will be mine. So, basically, sooner or later, everyone who is interested in these games will end up reading one of my reviews. So at the very top of each and every one of these reviews there will be a line that reads "This game is not an RPG, it is a turn-based strategy game with a mild exploration aspect. If this statement sounds strange to you it'd be a good idea to read this."

So don't worry about me. I've got everything worked out. ;)
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Postby ZebraAirforce » Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:07 am

Plz post all hatemail.
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Postby Ganelon » Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:15 am

I highly doubt people will flame you for your assertions of a true RPG in the PNP sense and how they don't apply to the RPG video game genre since that's been accepted for as long as I can remember. And before I forget, commendations on your superb game examples; I can't think of any key RPGs missed.

Anyway, your definition of an RPG is based on the very origins of the word. However, by now, mainstream video gaming has accepted a different rough definition of an RPG with character growth as the pivotal aspect. Not to mention the actual words role-playing-game separated out implies nothing of the PNP sort, but I'll ignore that for now and accept the acronym "RPG" to refer to the PNP variety.

You're certainly not at fault for believing video RPGs are bastardizations of the original meaning, and yet does that ultimately serve a point when the new definition has now surpassed the old in far greater degrees of popularity? Is there a point when D&D computer/video games have attributed their names and "RPG" labels to games that are world apart from PNP RPGs?

It's unanimous that CRPGs strive for customization/choice while JRPGs focus on characters/setting. If not for the feeling of JRPGs (whichever feeling suits you best to whichever JRPG exudes that feeling best), is there any other reason? Gameplay? No chance? Story, visuals, music? Only to contribute to this feeling/atmosphere. On the other hand, CRPGs encourage decision making and micro-managing; players enjoy the free-spiritedness of the world. Gameplay? As long as it contributes to the realism? Everything else? The same.

So while CRPGs attempt to fake life in a different surrounding trying to impress you with its unique aspects of realism, JRPGs move you to an entirely unbelivable world in order to move your emotions.

CRPGs undeniably wish to stay true to the original PNP vision (albeit with the innovative DM replaced by well-thought-out events), both to provide you a world to make your own as you wish (an outgrowth of American concepts of liberty perhaps?). But JRPGs direct you to present you just the right atmosphere with the feeling they intend to create, glorified movies using the power of playability to lure you into taking a personal interest. So with further review, you can say the 2 types of games are even different in intent than you make them out to be.

With JRPGs, the developer fears openness; with each additional choice, the player is sucked more into creating their own vision of the game and missing the tone of the game that the developers intended, whether for better or worse. If you have a game of 100 side quests staring down at you, how can you hold attention to the main quest? Meanwhile, the sandbox CRPG lets you meander about as you wish and provides a feel-good story just so they aren't accused of laziness and you're able to feel you really mean something in the world (since who wants to play a 1-player game knowing they're peons in the world? Certainly not PNP players). Introduce too much plot and the freedom disappears. So is there even any common ground? I don't believe so at this point.

Herein lies also why JRPGs can't be played for many times before you gain a tolerance for the feeling that the RPG gives you. A CRPG's actions may bore you, but if it didn't, you can keep enjoying the power and freedom of having a persona in a "replica" world. What makes an MMO more special than a normal CRPG? First, you have interaction, and secondly, for far more likely reasons, the fame/power (I say "likely" because few play MMOs to role-play; some even pay others just to play and get levels/gold/items). The purpose of a PNP? Camaraderie, freedom, creativity, fame/power, maybe some other stuff I'm forgetting. Unless there's real role-playing where there's more than 1 role in the game (as you aptly put it: the "adventurer"), MMOs aren't any more true to the vision.

Anyway, I don't understand the part about JRPGs changing comparatively little to CRPGs. Sure, WRPGs have been able to offer ever-more freedom as technology increased (as their original vision intended), but for what reason do people play JRPGs? What sort of change can you measure if you don't know what the unit is? If JRPGs are truly a boring mockery, wouldn't people have stopped playing them by now? CRPGs simple don't have the tools by design to suck in the emotional JRPG players.

So ultimately, I agree with most all of your comments and little of the opinion. Tell me though, do you ever feel emotional inside playing certain games (story, characters, music, magical atmosphere)? Or is the experience predominantly mental (gameplay, freedom, customization)? Forgive me if I'm wrong but I sense the latter, and with that point of view (whether it's something that can be changed or not), I don't think you can fully enjoy JRPGs.

Finally, sorry for the repeated explanations and lengthiness. I certainly respect your point of view; no question it's well thought out and from a knowledgeable perspective. But it's sort of bizarre to claim that there's nothing worth playing in JRPGs (implicitly referring to everyone) when my sense of pleasure says otherwise. And if your whole plan is to simply refer to RPGs by some other name, predisposition towards precedence and lack of effect says otherwise. Best of luck to you, but remember that it was JP folks who ignored the implications when they claimed the term "RPG" and it's also them to whom you won't be able to convey your message to.

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Postby Gaijin Punch » Wed Nov 21, 2007 2:15 am

Does anyone know how to easily split a topic in phpBB?
Rade wrote:Finally received a reply by posting in a thread at that Gaijin forum:

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Postby JoshF » Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:55 am

RyanDG29 wrote:I understand what you are trying to do here, but when you post this article (I enjoyed it btw, but that's mostly because I come from the same sort of mindset as you in regards to RPGs) you are going to end up being torn to shreds by people who simply wish to define an RPG as the next big SquareEnix release. I applaud you for your efforts of course, but it's going to be brutal. :)

That's a perfect prediction. You don't even know the multi-forum storyline people have created for icy where anything he writes will automatically arouse ten pages of knee-jerking.

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Postby zinger » Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:53 am

Gaijin Punch wrote:Does anyone know how to easily split a topic in phpBB?

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Postby Gaijin Punch » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:24 am

zinger wrote:
Gaijin Punch wrote:Does anyone know how to easily split a topic in phpBB?

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Must be a mod. I don't have it. :(
I'll check into it when I get back.l
Rade wrote:Finally received a reply by posting in a thread at that Gaijin forum:

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Postby icycalm » Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:58 am

Ganelon, I'll reply via PM. My sincere apologies GP. I just get carried away when discussing things that interest me.

Back on-topic: this game seems like a must-have SRPG:

http://postback.mforos.com/441648/31053 ... inden-psp/
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Postby Gaijin Punch » Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:43 am

No biggie... I should know how to split the topics though.
Rade wrote:Finally received a reply by posting in a thread at that Gaijin forum:

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Postby nectarsis » Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:30 pm

[quote="icycalm"]Ganelon, I'll reply via PM. My sincere apologies GP. I just get carried away when discussing things that interest me.

Back on-topic: this game seems like a must-have SRPG:

LOL..I just found out about this one a few days ago...seems kinda hard to find (at least at a decent price). It does look sweet : )

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Postby Gaijin Punch » Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:25 am

That one does look pretty good. Too bad I'm almost done w/ this trip, and as such, not really in the market for new PSP games.
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Postby Macaw » Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:59 am

That was originally a ps2 game wasn't it? It looks familiar but I cant be bothered searching the net.
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Postby EOJ » Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:12 pm

Well, I just finished Brave Story. It was quite a good JRPG, took me a bit over 17 hours to finish, but I didn't do any of the side quest stuff (that stuff generally does not interest me in such games). Battles were very nice (the ability to level up during a battle is a nice feature), a few of the characters were interesting, and while the story was a bit cheesy and the ending sucked, overall it was entertaining enough, and had a good pacing from start to finish. I enjoyed this game more than most of the PS2 RPGs released in the past couple years, which is sort of a sad reality.

I'm starting on Jeanne D'Arc now, so I'll let you know how that one is. I also have that Wild Arms Crossfire SRPG, but I haven't even opened it yet and may just sell it off before I do. Doesn't look too appealing to me.

Every Extend Extra is a ton of fun too, as others here have already mentioned. Been playing that one on and off the past week or so.

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Re: The ahem.... Must Have PSP titles

Postby Greatsaintlouis » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:32 pm

WISE FWOM YOW GWAVE!

(So very sorry for resurrecting this, but I figured since there already was a thread for the topic I might as well continue it.)

So I just picked up a PSP a little while back due to the fact that the systems are now dirt-cheap (especially used) with the Vita's release, the games are also pretty inexpensive, there's an incredible amount of great strategy and RPG titles, and it's region free--I'm moving to Japan in a few months and looking forward to scouring the used bins and shelves.

The last posts in this thread were from waaaaaaay back in 2007, and I know there's a lot of gaming that's come and gone since then. Has anyone kept up with PSP releases? What are your must-have titles? I actually started amassing a small game collection before I even picked up the system--the deciding factor for me was the English port of Falcom's Trails in the Sky. I've had the PC version of the first chapter for a few years, but the amount of Japanese text was absolutely daunting. The system has become a great repository for a lot of Falcom titles--five Ys installments in English, three of the earlier Legend of Heroes titles (though I hear the translations are a bit iffy there). I've also got Persona 2: Eternal Punishment and Persona 3 on deck.

I'm thinking of picking up Final Fantasy Tactics, as it's a game that I've always meant to play all the way through, but I can't decide if I should just grab the PSP version or rip my PSX CD to ISO and run it that way--can't really find any opinions one way or another online.
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Re: The ahem.... Must Have PSP titles

Postby CTN » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:58 pm

If you like your racing games, too, it's quite a great system
Gran Turismo, Out Run 2, Ridge Racer, WipeOut are all hugely enjoyable games

SquareEnix made some rather interesting exclusives:

Parasite Eve 3 - the 3rd Birthday
Tactis Ogre
Dissidia 1 + 2
Kingdom Hearts
Final Fantasy 4 Complete
Final Fantasy 7 Crisis Core
Star Ocean
Valkyrie Profile

Else
The Legend of Heroes - Trails in the Sky
Monster Hunter Series
Fate Extra
Persona
Phantasy Star
Puzzle Quest
R-Type Tactis
Ys
Astonisha Story
Riviera
Gungnir
Breath of Fire 3
Valkyria Chronicles 2

Non of these games should you cost more than 10$

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Re: The ahem.... Must Have PSP titles

Postby sven666 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:55 am

so uuuh.. because of gunhound X i re-bought a PSP, figure i will play it thru the composite leads thru my scaler onto my TV.

was under the impression that the PSP had a ton of SOTN copies but alas they all seem to be for the DS :/ so what else might tickle my fancy and be suited for TV play?
im not into RPGs or hack'n'slash (or hardly any 3d game for that matter).. any decent run'n'guns ?
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Re: The ahem.... Must Have PSP titles

Postby Macaw » Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:42 pm

sven666 wrote:so uuuh.. because of gunhound X i re-bought a PSP, figure i will play it thru the composite leads thru my scaler onto my TV.


Wouldn't it have been cheaper just to have gotten the pc version?
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Re: The ahem.... Must Have PSP titles

Postby sven666 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:52 pm

maybe, but i like the long way around :D

naah i got a PSP3000 for peanuts and figured i could use it for gunhound and the castlevania games (that turned out not to exist).. dunno bout the rest of the world but here in sweden the PSP is dead as a doorstop.
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Re: The ahem.... Must Have PSP titles

Postby Macaw » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:04 am

I still need to get around to playing Gokumakaimura one day...
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Re: The ahem.... Must Have PSP titles

Postby Magic Knight » Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:07 am

Macaw wrote:I still need to get around to playing Gokumakaimura one day...


After six years of owning a PSP, GokuMakaiMura is the only game I have for the system. Mind you, the last time I bought a game for my Wii was the day the machine was released (I only ever bought two), and similarly with the DS I only have Space Invaders Extreme and Arkanoid DS. I think I have a problem with games released in the last ten years.

But yeah, GokuMakaiMura is great. I ended up with the Kai version, though my hands struggle with the controls.

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Re: The ahem.... Must Have PSP titles

Postby Gaijin Punch » Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:50 am

I'm with you dude, and since I haven't hooked up my MAME PC since movingg, and have sold all my PCBs, I'm a bit stuck. :)
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Re: The ahem.... Must Have PSP titles

Postby Shou » Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:25 am

Magic Knight wrote:
Macaw wrote:I still need to get around to playing Gokumakaimura one day...


After six years of owning a PSP, GokuMakaiMura is the only game I have for the system. Mind you, the last time I bought a game for my Wii was the day the machine was released (I only ever bought two), and similarly with the DS I only have Space Invaders Extreme and Arkanoid DS. I think I have a problem with games released in the last ten years.

But yeah, GokuMakaiMura is great. I ended up with the Kai version, though my hands struggle with the controls.


Get a wildfire gaming dock so you can use a PS2 controller and then just output to a TV. I only use the PSP on the go when I'm on planes and trains but not automobiles.
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Re: The ahem.... Must Have PSP titles

Postby Magic Knight » Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:58 am

Shou wrote:
Magic Knight wrote:
Macaw wrote:I still need to get around to playing Gokumakaimura one day...


After six years of owning a PSP, GokuMakaiMura is the only game I have for the system. Mind you, the last time I bought a game for my Wii was the day the machine was released (I only ever bought two), and similarly with the DS I only have Space Invaders Extreme and Arkanoid DS. I think I have a problem with games released in the last ten years.

But yeah, GokuMakaiMura is great. I ended up with the Kai version, though my hands struggle with the controls.


Gaijin Punch wrote:I'm with you dude, and since I haven't hooked up my MAME PC since movingg, and have sold all my PCBs, I'm a bit stuck. :)

Shou wrote:I only use the PSP on the go when I'm on planes and trains but not automobiles.


Wow, and to think I thought you guys were hardcore... no PCBs GP? no playing while driving Shou? I'm outraged at this betrayal.

Shou wrote:Get a wildfire gaming dock so you can use a PS2 controller and then just output to a TV.


It looks like it doesn't work with the PSP1000? To be honest I'm a lazy man. All the time when in work I wished I could be at home with my stuff. Now I'm at home all day every day and I do nothing. Actually I just came back from the post office sorting out a money order for arcade stuff from a guy in the US. It took forever.


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