[PS2] ThunderForce VI [2008/10/30]

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[PS2] ThunderForce VI [2008/10/30]

Postby Mappy » Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:51 am

The current issue of Famitsu has an article about topic.
Developed by SEGA?!?
Looks like 3D graphics/ 2D gameplay.
Let's hope it will have at least the great music of past titles...
And..I'm really happy it's still on good old PS2 :D

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Postby Kaede » Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:18 am

Awesome news...and on PS2 as well! TFIV is an all time favourite for me. Thanks for the heads up Mappy!

P.S any screenshots yet?
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Postby Mappy » Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:22 am

I've seen some (bad quality) scans on another forum....
I don't know if I can link to it directly..
I think you can find them rather easely.. :roll:

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Postby Kaede » Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:29 am

Eurgh...shmups.com :yuck:

Well OK I've seen them now. Looks great! ;)
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Postby lordnikon » Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:29 pm

I woke up this morning to see scans from famitsu. I almost started hyperventilating. TFIV is my favorite shooter of all time. I just hope whoever is working on this can pull it off.

Do we know who is developing it? Is it really a Sega development team in Japan? Did Sega actually pickup the license for ThunderForce? or what?

EDIT #1 - Tetsu Okada is apprently directing the project, Sega is publishing in Japan, development staff are unconfirmed.

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Postby Gaijin Punch » Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:53 pm

I think it's nice to see a big house putting a flagship (?) title out on the PS2 still. Shows they know quite a few people still support the system. I hope they keep up w/ the Sega Ages series.
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Postby Mappy » Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:23 pm

The director of the game previously worked on SEGAGAGA and Tetsuwan Atom.. I don't know if this is good or not, really havent played them.
Unless they're talking about the Treasure Tetsuwan Atom for GBA...
The other members are unknown at the moment, so we don't know if it's reallya Tecnosoft game...but let's hope

About the segaages, if I'm not wrong there where some games announced but (still) unreleased..

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Postby Gaijin Punch » Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:35 pm

It is the GBA Tetsuwon Atom. Hopefully he worked on the US version as well which apparently has a lot added to help the somewhat flat gameplay of the JPN version.
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Postby RadiantSvgun » Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:45 am

Doubt this will come to the US, so I'm glad I have a JP PS2.
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Postby lordnikon » Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:40 pm

It is now my current opinion that ex-taito staff, possibly g.rev, are working on this game. Just look at these boss designs in greater detail:

http://www.famitsu.com/game/coming/1216397_1407.html

Sharp angular models, and pay attention to those sliver eyes. It screams Darius.

Plus, people have already been getting vibes of Gradius V, which G.Rev coded the engine for that.

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Postby Mappy » Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:14 am

Pity this is only speculation, so far..
but if this game ends up being half as good as Gradius V, it will be a great game.
I think that Graius V is one of the best shooter I played..but I'm a Gradius and Treasure fanboy...

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Postby zinger » Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:51 am

Thunder Force should be left alone, especially if all they can come up with is cheap shit like this. It looks like ass, only slightly better than those Sega Ages remakes. I used to love the TF games because of how mindblowingly over-the-top they were in terms of speed and presentation, but that only worked up and till part IV. Not that V was a lousy game, but it just didn't stand out much anymore (thanks to Cave and Raizing?).

I would have hoped that this cult series would be left alone unless someone's ready to really put some effort in. Make something that rivals the best shooters of today. Also, I could bet my soul on that not being G.Rev's work, like you propsed lordnikon. They are far too professional.

Well, I'll wait and see.

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Postby lordnikon » Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:19 am

zinger wrote:Well, I'll wait and see.

But you aren't waiting. You are already flaming the game like an abnoxious 14 year old, based on Famitsu Magazine scans and 7 screenshots. We have no idea who is developing the game. No videos have been shown of the game in action. You should slow down and actually wait to see how this game turns out before you pass judgement on it.

Also, the idea that we shouldn't make new sequels in any shooter franchise unless they meet the warped standards of elitest forumites, is completly absurd. It has been 10 whole years since the last ThunderForce game was released. Right now we have Sega publishing it, Okada as the Director, and a newly formed shooter development team to work on the project. I can't think of a better scenario for the return of ThunderForce.

I have no idea how ThunderForce VI is going to turn out. Though so far, I think they have succeeded in atleast capturing the feel of ThunderForce. Which is a good start in my book.

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Postby RadiantSvgun » Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:35 pm

lordnikon wrote:It is now my current opinion that ex-taito staff, possibly g.rev, are working on this game. Just look at these boss designs in greater detail:

http://www.famitsu.com/game/coming/1216397_1407.html

Sharp angular models, and pay attention to those sliver eyes. It screams Darius.

Plus, people have already been getting vibes of Gradius V, which G.Rev coded the engine for that.


I heard rumors that Treasure is working on Thunderforce.

I loved Gradius V, because it didn't feel like Gradius. It felt like Salamander. If Thunderforce can make a comeback I'm all for it. Now, if Konami would get off their asses and make Salamander 3, this would be a great year.
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Postby zinger » Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:17 pm

lordnikon wrote:
zinger wrote:Well, I'll wait and see.

But you aren't waiting. You are already flaming the game like an abnoxious 14 year old, based on Famitsu Magazine scans and 7 screenshots.
Yes, what else would I base it on? A lot of people have already commented on that the game looks good, at this point I don't think it does.

lordnikon wrote:We have no idea who is developing the game. No videos have been shown of the game in action. You should slow down and actually wait to see how this game turns out before you pass judgement on it.
My post wasn't a review of the game. I am frustrated about the direction the series seem to be going in (nowhere?:)).

lordnikon wrote:Also, the idea that we shouldn't make new sequels in any shooter franchise unless they meet the warped standards of elitest forumites, is completly absurd.
My standards are elitist but not warped. All we've seen thus far is references to the old games, and it just doesn't look very well-done. Smells like Sega wants to cash in on rehashing this cult series.

lordnikon wrote:It has been 10 whole years since the last ThunderForce game was released. Right now we have Sega publishing it, Okada as the Director, and a newly formed shooter development team to work on the project. I can't think of a better scenario for the return of ThunderForce.
The best scenario would of course be no return at all!

lordnikon wrote:I have no idea how ThunderForce VI is going to turn out. Though so far, I think they have succeeded in atleast capturing the feel of ThunderForce. Which is a good start in my book.
What "feel"?

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Postby Gaijin Punch » Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:50 am

I agree, that the screenshots thus far look a little ugly. But hey, I'm always up for something. I've even had the urge to bust out Radirgy again.
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Postby Ganelon » Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:46 am

zinger: I don't think you've ever voted Thunder Force on your Shmups Top 25 so I'm not sure why it would be all that surprising if you don't think TFVI looks promising so far. Raizing has no horiz shooters and Cave has only a fake one. Obviously, if you don't care as much about the series, you'd be more likely to take a "glass half empty" point of view.

As far as effort, what exactly are the best shooters of today? Raiden IV? Muchi Muchi Pork? Illvelo? Otomedius? And TFVI doesn't hold its own against that group? I don't think Sega even knows what it's supposed to put out. Obviously, it has creativity issues. So it looks to remake its classic hits. Then fans expect way more than what the originals had and remain unhappy.

I'd much rather have another TFV than nothing at all. It's not like they changed it to 3D or anything where it would stray from the intentions of the series; the mechanics look pretty familiar so far. TFVI, from the very little we've seen of it, seems to be a competent new game in an ever-shrinking niche; as a shooter fan, how could that possibly disappoint you? Just to preserve some sanctity of a classic series that you probably feel was already destroyed when TFV was released (now I could argue what I feel are the merits of that game but that would be a pointless debate)?

So just as I'm eagerly anticipating Mega Man 9 even though it's advertised as nothing more than "just another Mega Man," I'm also looking forward to Thunder Force VI even though it'll very likely be advertised as nothing more than "just another Thunder Force."

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Postby zinger » Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:16 am

Ganelon wrote:zinger: I don't think you've ever voted Thunder Force on your Shmups Top 25 so I'm not sure why it would be all that surprising if you don't think TFVI looks promising so far. Raizing has no horiz shooters and Cave has only a fake one. Obviously, if you don't care as much about the series, you'd be more likely to take a "glass half empty" point of view.
I do care for the series (although console shooters need to grow up and learn from their arcade counterparts, I doubt we'll ever see that with TFVI). It used to be state of the art in the early nineties, this however is not, as it appears on the screenshots.

Ganelon wrote:So it looks to remake its classic hits. Then fans expect way more than what the originals had and remain unhappy.
Ganelon wrote:So just as I'm eagerly anticipating Mega Man 9 even though it's advertised as nothing more than "just another Mega Man," I'm also looking forward to Thunder Force VI even though it'll very likely be advertised as nothing more than "just another Thunder Force."

That's the problem right there. I expect a lot as a player, while TFVI seems to be directed to fans jacking off to metal and FIRE LEO-01 as a secretly selecable ship, or whatever. Playing the same games over and over is a waste of time for me.

Ganelon wrote:I'd much rather have another TFV than nothing at all. It's not like they changed it to 3D or anything where it would stray from the intentions of the series; the mechanics look pretty familiar so far. TFVI, from the very little we've seen of it, seems to be a competent new game in an ever-shrinking niche; as a shooter fan, how could that possibly disappoint you? Just to preserve some sanctity of a classic series that you probably feel was already destroyed when TFV was released (now I could argue what I feel are the merits of that game but that would be a pointless debate)?
It disappoints me because I expect every company to make an effort to develop the genre like Cave, Raizing and G.Rev always have. I couldn't care less about the "preserved sanctity", I'm just expressing my pessimism to balance out the thread here. ;) I will most likely not be spending my money on this...

I'm really looking forward to see the finished product though (and hopefully be proven wrong), so again: I'll wait and see.

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Postby lordnikon » Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:35 pm

zinger wrote:That's the problem right there. I expect a lot as a player, while TFVI seems to be directed to fans jacking off to metal and FIRE LEO-01 as a secretly selecable ship, or whatever.

What? ThunderForce VI is directed at fans because thats what sequels in a franchise do. They stay consistant with the series they are expanding upon. I don't see how you can argue it is a bad thing that actual ThunderForce fans are getting what they want.

zinger wrote:Playing the same games over and over is a waste of time for me.

Every TF game released were rather different from one another. The series didn't recycle bosses or many enemies from game to game. Each was pretty much a brand new shooter experience with a different visual asthetic. ThunderForce II even had vertical multi-directional shooting, and sidescrolling shooting. ThunderForce VI is the very first game in the series to draw so heavily from previous titles. Plus, may I remind you a brand new team is making this game 10 years after the last one was released! It would be very difficult to have a new developer trying to make a 100% original ThunderForce game without first becoming familiar with the source material on a developmental level.

zinger wrote:I do care for the series (although console shooters need to grow up and learn from their arcade counterparts, I doubt we'll ever see that with TFVI).

What are you talking about?! You mean that HUGE demographic of console only shooter franchises released in the past 10 years like...

Bangai-O, Silpheed, Xyanide, Iridion/Nanostray and... and... O_o

Wait. There are no more. Every other game released were ports of arcade games or sequels to arcade counterparts.

zinger wrote:It used to be state of the art in the early nineties, this however is not, as it appears on the screenshots.
...

It disappoints me because I expect every company to make an effort to develop the genre like Cave, Raizing and G.Rev always have. I couldn't care less about the "preserved sanctity"...

I have said it before and I will say it again: Cave Fanboys give true Cave Fans a bad name.

Cave Fanboys are the equivelant to graphics whores or Halo fans in mainstream game circuits. They whine and whine, poo pooing every new shooter that comes out because they have determined Cave to be the pinnacle of greatness and that everything else is lacking.

When I reach for a shooter to play, my hand often moves past Ibara, and grabs Trizeal instead. Cave shooters are great games and I respect everything that they do. However my preferences just happen include franchises like R-Type, RayForce, Darius/Border Down, and ThunderForce. The thing is I don't have to go crap on other shooters to support the games I am interested in.

You would think that with a niche genre like scrolling shooters, people would be overjoyed about ThunderForce VI. Nope. We have this split where on one side there fans who truly appreciate shooters of all shapes and sizes, and elitest graphics whores on the other side who pile into threads calling something "cheap shit" that needs to "grow up" and "looks like ass".

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Postby zinger » Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:01 pm

lordnikon wrote:What? ThunderForce VI is directed at fans because thats what sequels in a franchise do. They stay consistant with the series they are expanding upon. I don't see how you can argue it is a bad thing that actual ThunderForce fans are getting what they want. Every TF game released were rather different from one another. The series didn't recycle bosses or many enemies from game to game. Each was pretty much a brand new shooter experience with a different visual asthetic. ThunderForce II even had vertical multi-directional shooting, and sidescrolling shooting. ThunderForce VI is the very first game in the series to draw so heavily from previous titles.
Exactly, you finally got it!

As for the rest of your post, all I'm saying is that I want developers that are aware of what's been going on in the genre for the past ten years. That doesn't mean they should copy Cave, but quite on the contrary, bring some entirely new ideas.

True Cave Fans, lol.

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Postby lordnikon » Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:35 am

zinger wrote:
lordnikon wrote:What? ThunderForce VI is directed at fans because thats what sequels in a franchise do. They stay consistant with the series they are expanding upon. I don't see how you can argue it is a bad thing that actual ThunderForce fans are getting what they want. Every TF game released were rather different from one another. The series didn't recycle bosses or many enemies from game to game. Each was pretty much a brand new shooter experience with a different visual asthetic. ThunderForce II even had vertical multi-directional shooting, and sidescrolling shooting. ThunderForce VI is the very first game in the series to draw so heavily from previous titles.
Exactly, you finally got it!

Finally got what? You say that as if this was a point you were trying to make earlier in the thread. You made zero mention of anything I wrote above. So you don't play shooters that are similar to previous games? You are aware that Border Down is a pseudo offshoot of the Darius series right? The first boss battle is almost identical to Stage1/A boss in Darius Gaiden, the break laser is straight out of G Darius, and the Border stage system is an offshoot of the branching level paths used in all previous Darius games.

zinger wrote:As for the rest of your post, all I'm saying is that I want developers that are aware of what's been going on in the genre for the past ten years. That doesn't mean they should copy Cave, but quite on the contrary, bring some entirely new ideas.

New ideas usually arise from brand new intellectual properties in the shmup genre. Rarely, if ever, does this happen within a specific franchise. Even when brand new shooters come out, they are tweaks on forumulas already set forth by previous games. Under Defeat's angular helicopter movements had already been done before, and not in the game everyone else likes to compare it to, but Sonic Wings Special with VOLK's Red Hokum attack helicopter.

If you want to talk about entirely new ideas: Triangle Service and MileStone are companies who have done brand new things with shooters in recent years. Triangle Services "Shooting Skills Test" is something that hasn't really been done before. Also, the warpzone's in MileStone's Illvelo turn the entire genre on its ear, sending you not just forward... but scrolling the game backwards, and into diagonal directions before warping you back to the main stage. Even the ship hurdling in Warashi's Trigger Heart was very unique and fresh.

Complaining about ThunderForce VI not bringing entirely new ideas to the table, is like barging into a chocolate shop pissed off because they don't offer cheeseburgers.

zinger wrote:True Cave Fans, lol.

Yes True Cave fans. Those who are genuinely interested in Cave, without having to trash other games to justify their interest. Cave Fanboys simply latch onto Cave to sit up on a high horse and flame other games and troll threads. Just like there are those who only became G.Rev fans when Under Defeat came out so they could do the exact same thing.

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Postby Gaijin Punch » Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:14 am

Triangle Service is an example of why you don't bring new ideas to the table.

The reason Cave is popular is because each game borrow's elements (mainly created by Cave) from previous ones (although Death Smiles borrows almost none). Their games also demand a level of precision to max score that no other games do. Ketsui's rapid->lock on trick, Galuda 2's gold sucking, and countless more. They are a technical players dream.

I won't label this until I've played it, but based on looks alone it seems to require a paper bag.
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Postby lordnikon » Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:11 am

Gaijin Punch wrote:Triangle Service is an example of why you don't bring new ideas to the table.

Why do you feel this way?

I really enjoyed Trizeal, and the Lifting mode was really cool. The shooting skills test on the PS2 version, and stuff they are doing with shooting skills test on EXZEAL great in my opinion. Especially how there are competative 2P shooting skills modes, where the ships will bounce off each other, and you can even fly behind your opponent and shoot them draining points off their score. Then there is that one with the huge waste basket, and you are trying to shoot in what looks to be bottles or cannistars (hard to tell from youtube) into the basket for points.

I am intrigued by the idea of having a main shooting game experience, and then in addition to that a series of mini-modes that experiment with the gameplay.

Nanostray 2 did this as well recently as on the DS with its challenge stages.

Gaijin Punch wrote:The reason Cave is popular is because each game borrow's elements (mainly created by Cave) from previous ones (although Death Smiles borrows almost none). Their games also demand a level of precision to max score that no other games do. Ketsui's rapid->lock on trick, Galuda 2's gold sucking, and countless more. They are a technical players dream.

Yea I understand why the games are popular, and rightfully so as they are great games. Its just that people with a certain elitest mindset are attracted to cave games and proceed to crap on other shooters, just like fanboys and trolls on gamefaqs or something.

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Postby Macaw » Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:53 am

At least Cave games are still 2d and look great. If triangle service kept making 2d titles with the graphic quality of XII Stag then their games would be at the top of my anticipation list alongside the cave stuff.

Instead triangle service decided its incredible fun to rub cock on inanimate objects during work hours because it turns them on and nothing is better than sexual stimulation in a public environment, or something.
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Postby Mappy » Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:47 am

All this, after only a couple of screenshots?
:o
Well guys, please wait to see the game in motion, AT THE VERY LEAST, before coming to conclusions..


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