[PS2] ThunderForce VI [2008/10/30]

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Postby ZebraAirforce » Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:18 am

zinger is just afraid of anther R-Type Final.
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Postby sven666 » Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:18 am

i for one am looking forward to this, i quite liked TF5 to be honest, good game.

none of the previous TF games are score centric and i dont expect this to be either, however theyre good fun and have always proven a decent bang for buck imo.. play untill the 1CC and then you can forget about it.

no need to practice an intricate scoringsystem for hours on end, just play for the love of the genre and to see what comes next, when youve seen it all the game is over.. simple, oldschool, nothing wrong with that.

i wouldnt judge the gfx over a couple of crappy scans from a magazine, im sure itll look just as good as gradius 5 or rtype final..

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Postby Macaw » Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:45 am

sven666 wrote:none of the previous TF games are score centric and i dont expect this to be either, however theyre good fun and have always proven a decent bang for buck imo.. play untill the 1CC and then you can forget about it.


Wrong mentality I think. Shooting games without any kind of scoring depth rely solely on the stage designs and such. If you play through it then forget about it then its a useless game. If you play through it and remember it for a long time then its an awesome game. Take Axelay as an example, pretty crap for trying to get high scores, but I have never forgotten how atmospheric and dramatic the last stage in it is. Superb.


sven666 wrote:i wouldnt judge the gfx over a couple of crappy scans from a magazine, im sure itll look just as good as gradius 5 or rtype final..


Not sure if it will look as good as those games, but I am not too worried about the graphics. Some of the first 3d shooters like Raystorm and G-Darius look absolutely incredible despite the technical limitations. Then again maybe thats just because Taito was awesome.

Bottom line: Need vids.
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Postby lordnikon » Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:02 am

More screenshots at ebten & gamewatch, including official website:

http://thunderforce.sega.jp/

http://ebten.jp/sega/p/4974365832124/
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/doc ... 714/tf.htm

I am liking what I am seeing so far. These new screenshots reveal a lot more action.

Can anyone do a proper translation of the latest entry about ThunderForce on this page? I ran it through a few translators, but it was still sort of garbled. It seemed to me like a gung-ho statement by Sega about reviving STG's, but I can't say for sure: http://zolge.sega.jp/

UPDATE: Notice at the very bottom of the official ThunderForce website, it states "Project S.T.G-001". As if to say, this is the first shooting project of many to come? I mean that would just be.. *starts hyperven...*
Last edited by lordnikon on Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby sven666 » Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:07 am

umm ofcourse i didnt mean to forget about the game entierly, i mean forget about playing it as in being finished with it.

i too enjoyed Axelay alot. (and still do every once in a couple of years)
it is exactly that kind of game im expecting this to be.

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Postby Recap » Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:58 am

lordnikon wrote:Can anyone do a proper translation of the latest entry about ThunderForce on this page? I ran it through a few translators, but it was still sort of garbled. It seemed to me like a gung-ho statement by Sega about reviving STG's, but I can't say for sure: http://zolge.sega.jp/

UPDATE: Notice at the very bottom of the official ThunderForce website, it states "Project S.T.G-001". As if to say, this is the first shooting project of many to come? I mean that would just be.. *starts hyperven...*


Says indeed that this is the first of a revival of old shooting series. Second and third already in development.


And this shit looks even worse than Border Down, no need for vids at all. Whichever is developing it (hi, Grev?) is forgetting that Thunder Force is about stunning 2D visuals too. Taking TFV as the basis is retarded.

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Postby Gaijin Punch » Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:47 am

I hated all of Triangle Service's game b/c they look slapped together. G.Rev's do not. From what I can tell, both companies similar in size (and presumably budget -- G.Rev is technically a poor company). With Sega behind the wallet, not making this look stunning is kind of bad.

As before, I'd rather play an ugly, fun game over a pretty, dull one. The graphical ooh-aah wears off far quicker than the ooh ahh from playing.
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Postby Recap » Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:23 pm

Gaijin Punch wrote:As before, I'd rather play an ugly, fun game over a pretty, dull one. The graphical ooh-aah wears off far quicker than the ooh ahh from playing.


Prettiness makes fun what otherwise would be "dull", though. That's the case of Thunder Force and 99% of (fun) domestic video-games.

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Postby Gaijin Punch » Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:26 pm

I gotta come clean here. I'm not much of a Thunder Force fan to begin with.
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Postby Recap » Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:31 pm

But you are of Odin Sphere, aren't you?

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Postby sven666 » Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:32 pm

Gaijin Punch wrote:I gotta come clean here. I'm not much of a Thunder Force fan to begin with.


why paul.. i never knew you were "that way"... :P

the only thunder force that had stunning visuals (for its time) was 4 and even back then they were more "very good" rather than stunning.

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Postby Recap » Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:36 pm

III had the most impressive visuals in a domestic shooting game for its moment, both art-wise and from a techncal point of view.

II (computer version) was also visually superlative then.

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Postby sven666 » Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:46 pm

No

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Postby Recap » Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:51 pm

You know, some examples would help your thoughtful answer. Try it.

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Postby Gaijin Punch » Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:23 pm

Recap wrote:But you are of Odin Sphere, aren't you?


Sure. It was fun. The chances of me replaying (and putting more time into) Radirgy or Border Down are way, way higher though. I have to admit, Odin Sphere was a bit tacked on until the final boss.
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Postby RadiantSvgun » Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:41 pm

sven666 wrote:
Gaijin Punch wrote:I gotta come clean here. I'm not much of a Thunder Force fan to begin with.


why paul.. i never knew you were "that way"... :P

the only thunder force that had stunning visuals (for its time) was 4 and even back then they were more "very good" rather than stunning.


Um, how about TF4's (lightening Force over here) super cool opening. It still amazes me to this day. I've yet to beat it, but every level I've seen is visually amazing. Still, its no Gaiares. :)

Border down...... such an amazing game, I love everything about the game, especially the music on stage 2. I thought the visuals on Border Down were amazing..... You guys must have some high standards.

GP, man, you gotta give TF 4 some love! :cry:
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Postby Recap » Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:52 pm

Gaijin Punch wrote:
Recap wrote:But you are of Odin Sphere, aren't you?


Sure. It was fun.


And what's what makes of OS such a fun game, in your opinion? In other words, would you say that if OS were like it is but had say, Maximo's graphics, it'd still be "fun" or much the contrary it'd be "dull"?

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Postby lordnikon » Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:15 pm

1.) Gameplay always comes first, then performance, then presentation. This isn't to say that presentation isn't important. It is more or less icing on the cake. When you have a game that looks pretty, and has no gameplay... what is the point? Atleast a game with average graphics and great gameplay is still a blast to play.

2.) Perceived graphic quality is relative to the user experiencing the game. Everyone has a different opinion of what constitutes "good graphics".

PS to RadiantSvgun: Border Down is indeed amazing, and one of my personal favorites ;)

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Postby Gaijin Punch » Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:29 pm

Recap wrote:And what's what makes of OS such a fun game, in your opinion? In other words, would you say that if OS were like it is but had say, Maximo's graphics, it'd still be "fun" or much the contrary it'd be "dull"?


Graphics never make a game "fun". It gets the games foot in the door, so to speak. To be honest, for about the first half I enjoyed the game, but knew what to expect, as I figured it would be a lot like Princess Crown. It was cool playing the different characters, but not the same bosses over and over.

If it was a platformer style action RPG, I likely would've played it even if it have Maximo's graphics, just as I'll play TFVI.
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Postby RadiantSvgun » Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:37 pm

I'm surprised no one has brought up slowdown.

Remember R-type final? The game looked amazing, but the slowdown made me put the game down forever.
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Postby zinger » Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:56 pm

lordnikon wrote:Finally got what? You say that as if this was a point you were trying to make earlier in the thread. You made zero mention of anything I wrote above.
That TFVI is the first game to draw heavily from the previous titles. That and the under developed graphics makes it look like shooter that's based more on nostalgia than a good, original system. That is my point, but maybe I wasn't clear enough.

Anyway, about the other stuff:

lordnikon wrote:
zinger wrote:I do care for the series (although console shooters need to grow up and learn from their arcade counterparts, I doubt we'll ever see that with TFVI).

What are you talking about?! You mean that HUGE demographic of console only shooter franchises released in the past 10 years like...

Bangai-O, Silpheed, Xyanide, Iridion/Nanostray and... and... O_o

Wait. There are no more. Every other game released were ports of arcade games or sequels to arcade counterparts.

No, I'm talking about console shooters (that aren't arcade ports) released in the past 20 years.


lordnikon wrote:When I reach for a shooter to play, my hand often moves past Ibara, and grabs Trizeal instead. Cave shooters are great games and I respect everything that they do. However my preferences just happen include franchises like R-Type, RayForce, Darius/Border Down, and ThunderForce. The thing is I don't have to go crap on other shooters to support the games I am interested in.
The reason to why the games you mention are great games is because they all did something extraordinary for their time, except for Trizeal that is. R-Type introduced a new type of more elaborate stage designs with increased strategical complexity as a result. Darius was a type of score driven shooter never seen before with its multiple routes, combo system, and destroyable boss parts (G.Rev expanded on all this with great results). Not to mention the three-screen-cabinet, oversized bosses and overall awesome presentation. Rayforce also with its unique presentation and highly original and advanced scoring system for its time. And then, Thunder Force. Amazing graphics / music (both in terms of techincality and originality) and a fairly unique system (high-speed-maze-like-cave-action and with an interesting weapon system). Let's not forget that it was pretty much better than anything else released for the home market at that time.

No one remembers a half-decent clone...

lordnikon wrote:So you don't play shooters that are similar to previous games? You are aware that Border Down is a pseudo offshoot of the Darius series right? The first boss battle is almost identical to Stage1/A boss in Darius Gaiden, the break laser is straight out of G Darius, and the Border stage system is an offshoot of the branching level paths used in all previous Darius games.
Didn't you ever notice how extremely strategical G Darius is compared to the first two Darius games and Metal Black? The developers expanded on the original system for increased complexity without making it feel forced or overly complex, and then again with Border Down.

lordnikon wrote:Complaining about ThunderForce VI not bringing entirely new ideas to the table, is like barging into a chocolate shop pissed off because they don't offer cheeseburgers.
Actually, it's like complaining about a newly released chocolate bar that tastes just like an old one. I'm not asking them to reinvent chocolate, just to throw some peanuts in there!

lordnikon wrote:
zinger wrote:True Cave Fans, lol.

Yes True Cave fans. Those who are genuinely interested in Cave, without having to trash other games to justify their interest. Cave Fanboys simply latch onto Cave to sit up on a high horse and flame other games and troll threads. Just like there are those who only became G.Rev fans when Under Defeat came out so they could do the exact same thing.

Ok!

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Postby Recap » Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:09 pm

Gaijin Punch wrote:Graphics never make a game "fun". It gets the games foot in the door, so to speak. To be honest, for about the first half I enjoyed the game, but knew what to expect, as I figured it would be a lot like Princess Crown. It was cool playing the different characters, but not the same bosses over and over.

If it was a platformer style action RPG, I likely would've played it even if it have Maximo's graphics, just as I'll play TFVI.


So you don't like the game's structure which involves beating the same bosses over and over nor the mechanics since they're not "platformer"-style. I'll ask again -- what makes of OS such a "fun" game in your opinion?

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Postby Macaw » Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:26 pm

Visuals and music are the most important aspects of a game for me, and indeed impacts greatly on the fun you get.

Lets take Dungeons & Dragons Shadow Over Mystara. Lets pretend it was the exact same game but with 3d graphics. Sure it will still be fun to play, but it wont be nearly as awesome.
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Postby CIT Seven Force » Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:23 pm

For me the soundtrack is even more important. I can usually live with bad graphics, but bad sound will pretty much kill a game for me (best example: Raiden Fighters series窶蚤wesome games, but probably the worst sound ever, I simply cannot bear to play them).

Indeed, the main draw for the TF series (and indeed all Tecnosoft shooteres) was always the music, imo.

And it's true that good graphics (just like sound) can make an otherwise dull game exciting. But in the end it's the same as fucking a hot woman with bad character窶波ood sex, but no love. For that, there needs to be something more, and that something more is, for example, what was missing from Odin Sphere.

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Postby Gaijin Punch » Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:40 pm

So you don't like the game's structure which involves beating the same bosses over and over nor the mechanics since they're not "platformer"-style. I'll ask again -- what makes of OS such a "fun" game in your opinion?


I liked the way the game played... as not so clearly stated. ("It played like Princess Crown"). Had it been some type of turn-based strategy w/ a similar graphics engine, I probably would've played it b/c I like those games too, but maybe not have gotten all the way through it.

For me the soundtrack is even more important.


If I went by this, my game collection would be about 10 games large, ever. By and large, game music really leaves me unimpressed, and in many cases annoyed.
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