[PS2] ThunderForce VI [2008/10/30]

Talk about all aspect of Japanese games.

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Postby Recap » Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:17 am

I liked the way the game played... as not so clearly stated. ("It played like Princess Crown").


OS's mechanics have a stronger appeal for you than its graphics then? Never thought I could find anybody with such an opinion, but hey!



Had it been some type of turn-based strategy w/ a similar graphics engine, I probably would've played it b/c I like those games too, but maybe not have gotten all the way through it.


Try Seven and/or Venus & Braves, anyway.




Macaw wrote:Visuals and music are the most important aspects of a game for me, and indeed impacts greatly on the fun you get.

Lets take Dungeons & Dragons Shadow Over Mystara. Lets pretend it was the exact same game but with 3d graphics. Sure it will still be fun to play, but it wont be nearly as awesome.


Speaking of awesome graphics and this genre, what do you think of Sailor Moon arcade game? I really, really want to believe it's not the pile of crap it seems to be after a couple sessions, due to the fantastic graphics (Inoue helped there, for those who care). But it's so unforgiving it's a total failure as a game. Do you believe I may be missing something or just need to move on?

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Postby Gaijin Punch » Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:58 am

OS's mechanics have a stronger appeal for you than its graphics then? Never thought I could find anybody with such an opinion, but hey!


You specifically asked "what makes OS such a fun game". Didn't say I liked the mechanics more than the graphics (definitely not true). Just saying why I finished playing it, and why I might play through it again.

Try Seven and/or Venus & Braves, anyway.


I actually just got one of the La Pucille games. Might give that a whirl.
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Postby Macaw » Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:07 am

Recap wrote:Speaking of awesome graphics and this genre, what do you think of Sailor Moon arcade game? I really, really want to believe it's not the pile of crap it seems to be after a couple sessions, due to the fantastic graphics (Inoue helped there, for those who care). But it's so unforgiving it's a total failure as a game. Do you believe I may be missing something or just need to move on?


I keep coming back to this game for the same reason. The graphics are indeed superb, and I actually don't mind Sailor Moon franchise, so that doesn't deter me either.

Recently I had probably my longest stint with the game, managed to be able to get to about stage 3 or 4, cant remember. I can definitely say the further you get, the more exciting the stages get, and at some points there is a crazy amount of enemies on screen. All the mechanics are solid and combat feels satisfying enough, even though it lacks variable combo enders and stuff.

So whats your problem with the game? You think it is too hard from being unbalanced?
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Postby ZebraAirforce » Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:23 am

I can't say I don't enjoy good graphics and music, but many times you get something gilded. A good example is Blazeon - great graphics and music, but the first couple of stages were so slow I just stopped playing.

As for Odin Sphere, I quit playing when I realized the entire game was going to consist of running in the same few circles.
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Postby Shou » Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:37 am

Macaw wrote:I keep coming back to this game for the same reason. The graphics are indeed superb, and I actually don't mind Sailor Moon franchise, so that doesn't deter me either.

Recently I had probably my longest stint with the game, managed to be able to get to about stage 3 or 4, cant remember. I can definitely say the further you get, the more exciting the stages get, and at some points there is a crazy amount of enemies on screen. All the mechanics are solid and combat feels satisfying enough, even though it lacks variable combo enders and stuff.

So whats your problem with the game? You think it is too hard from being unbalanced?


Gameplay suffers from the hit stun bug so you can systematically take out everyone except for certain bosses. Sound is pretty weak and pacing fairly slow I thought. Getting the super attacks with multiple crystals just takes too long. It really felt like if they had more staffers and a higher budget that it could've been better. But, yah, it sure does look nice.
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Postby Recap » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:15 am

Gaijin Punch wrote:You specifically asked "what makes OS such a fun game". Didn't say I liked the mechanics more than the graphics (definitely not true). Just saying why I finished playing it, and why I might play through it again.


There's a contradiction if you say the graphics have a stronger appeal for you than the mechanics but at the same time that it was just the mechanics what kept you coming back.

My ultimate point of course, in order to reach a conclusion anytime soon, is that putting apart graphics and "fun" as if the latter didn't depend on the former is just a widespread misconception which needs to end.




Try Seven and/or Venus & Braves, anyway.


I actually just got one of the La Pucille games. Might give that a whirl.


There's only one La Pucelle, actually (the second one being not much more than a re-edition), but remember we're talking there about "similar graphic engine to OS". Seven / V&B is miles ahead of Nippon Ichi games in terms of visual quality. In some aspects, they're even better than OS's (sprites normally have no multiple parts, etc).

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=qHVtI7mqW-8





So whats your problem with the game? You think it is too hard from being unbalanced?


Yep. Crowd control becomes impossible for me, especially when there's a boss on screen. There're too many unfair situations (what the hell is with those little creatures on stage 2 which appear running at you with an attack you can't stop at all? And what about the stupid time limit?).

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Postby Gaijin Punch » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:26 pm

Recap wrote:There's a contradiction if you say the graphics have a stronger appeal for you than the mechanics but at the same time that it was just the mechanics what kept you coming back.


I don't see it. Graphics get the game in the door, the mechanics dictate if it gets replayed (or finished). That's the vanilla look at it and there's far more to it than that. Ultimately, I can easily enjoy an ugly game if it's catchy. I think most people can when it comes down to it. World wide people get drunk and fuck ugly girls all the time.

My ultimate point of course, in order to reach a conclusion anytime soon, is that putting apart graphics and "fun" as if the latter didn't depend on the former is just a widespread misconception which needs to end.


I still don't see how graphics make a game fun. Enjoyable? Sure, I can buy that. There's tons of visually amazing games that are just flat out awful games.

Seven / V&B is miles ahead of Nippon Ichi games in terms of visual quality


I'll check 'em out. The La Pucelle kind of fell into my lap. I was pretty sure it was a re-edition, but though maybe w/ some extra stuff.
Last edited by Gaijin Punch on Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Recap » Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:55 pm

Gaijin Punch wrote:I don't see it. Graphics get the game in the door, the mechanics dictate if it gets replayed (or finished).


So you only enjoy the graphics the very first time you play the game? Once it "gets in the door" you don't care about graphics, no matter if you only saw a small part of the game...?




I still don't see how graphics make a game fun. Enjoyable? Sure, I can buy that.


[i]fun

adj. Informal.
Enjoyable; amusing: 窶弸ou're a real fun guy窶拏/i]

http://www.answers.com/fun



There's tons of visually amazing games that are just flat out awful games.


Five. I will be the one buying that if you can enumerate just 5. Japanese only, please.

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Postby lordnikon » Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:20 pm

Uh, so yea anyways... back to ThunderForce VI...

Does anyone have any theories about what may happen with regards to the music? Do you think they will license the soundtrack originally intended for the Dreamcast release? or start from scratch trying to get an artist to emulate the musical style of previous TF games?

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Postby RadiantSvgun » Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:59 pm

lordnikon wrote:Uh, so yea anyways... back to ThunderForce VI...

Does anyone have any theories about what may happen with regards to the music? Do you think they will license the soundtrack originally intended for the Dreamcast release? or start from scratch trying to get an artist to emulate the musical style of previous TF games?


Yes, back to TF VI.

I hope the music is all original, and the gameplay has lots of huge explosions.

I wonder how TF will hold up in this era of Bullet hell and Bullet curtian shooter generation? Hopefully, it will have some kind of high speed stage like Gradius does. Shooters now need to have more of that.
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Postby ry mc » Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:05 pm

lordnikon wrote:Everyone has a different opinion of what constitutes "good graphics"


Aye. And I think TF6 looks quite clean and crisp so far. But maybe I have little room to talk since I actively play MSX and PC88/98 games (which can be gorgeous as well.) To each their own though, and I totally understand why some people could be turned off by the 3D so far.


Gaijin Punch wrote:I actually just got one of the La Pucille games. Might give that a whirl.


That's very nice, but La Pucille is most surely not Venus and Braves. ;) I have the latter, and it's fantastic. And one you can add to your 10 games list with incredible music. /pees pants
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Postby Recap » Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:07 pm

I thought that for the usual pointless speculation / boring personal wishlists there was already Shmups Dot Com.

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Postby Gaijin Punch » Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:07 am

[quote]fun

adj. Informal.
Enjoyable; amusing: 窶弸ou're a real fun guy窶
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Postby Macaw » Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:56 am

ry mc wrote:But maybe I have little room to talk since I actively play MSX and PC88/98 games (which can be gorgeous as well.)


Those shouldn't be put in the same category. MSX basically provided Famicom level visuals, PC88 and 98 from the late 80's onwards was far, far, far ahead of it technically.
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Postby lordnikon » Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:36 am

Recap wrote:I thought that for the usual pointless speculation / boring personal wishlists there was already Shmups Dot Com.

Oh ok, sorry about that. I guess I have not been fully briefed on the topical nature of these forums yet. Should games only be discussed here after they have hit retail? or do these threads exist merely as a platform for convincing others to share your viewpoint in a veign attempt to quell insecurities you might have about choosing which games to put your time towards?

RadiantSvgun wrote:
lordnikon wrote:Uh, so yea anyways... back to ThunderForce VI...

Does anyone have any theories about what may happen with regards to the music? Do you think they will license the soundtrack originally intended for the Dreamcast release? or start from scratch trying to get an artist to emulate the musical style of previous TF games?

Yes, back to TF VI.

I hope the music is all original, and the gameplay has lots of huge explosions.

I wonder how TF will hold up in this era of Bullet hell and Bullet curtian shooter generation? Hopefully, it will have some kind of high speed stage like Gradius does. Shooters now need to have more of that.

If there was ever a company that understands why music is so important in games, it would be Sega. Atleast, the Sega I know and love from the Saturn/Dreamcast era. With Okada having worked on SGGG, I think he gets it that the music has to be something special in ThunderForce VI. Hopefully the music turns out solid.

Yea most of the shooters these days are Vertical. R-Type is gone, and there has been no mention of a new Gradius game. So to see a new Horizontal shooter coming out is very significant in my opinion.

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Postby Recap » Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:01 am

lordnikon wrote:
Recap wrote:I thought that for the usual pointless speculation / boring personal wishlists there was already Shmups Dot Com.

Oh ok, sorry about that. I guess I have not been fully briefed on the topical nature of these forums yet. Should games only be discussed here after they have hit retail? or do these threads exist merely as a platform for convincing others to share your viewpoint in a veign attempt to quell insecurities you might have about choosing which games to put your time towards?


No clue, there. But according to Zinger's answers to your fervent effort I'd say nope.

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Postby lordnikon » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:24 am

My comments to zinger were an attempt to discourage elitest trolling within the shooting community. Your efforts however involve convincing Gaijin Punch that graphics should take top priority, long after he stated other aspects of games can hold equal or greater importance. Then you get cranky when someone like myself are looking to discuss aspects of ThunderForce VI's release.

It is so difficult to find people who are real fans of video games as a whole. Here we have a sequel to a shooting franchise that hasn't had a release in over 10 years. One that we all thought was gone forever. Inspite of this people across many boards are making doofus proclamations about TFVI needing to meet or exceed Border Down or Gradius V to be worthy of a release. O_o Hell, there are even those refusing to acknowledge ThunderForce VI unless it came to a none Sony platform, because they can't let go of the DC vs PS2 rivalry from years back. This is just insanity in my opinion.

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Postby Recap » Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:41 am

My comments to zinger were an attempt to discourage elitest trolling within the shooting community. Your efforts however involve convincing Gaijin Punch that graphics should take top priority, long after he stated other aspects of games can hold equal or greater importance. Then you get cranky when someone like myself are looking to discuss aspects of ThunderForce VI's release.


Read, dumbass:

Your comments to Zinger were a quite idiotic and uncalled attempt to scorn an opinion different to the very one of yours just for the hell of it, showing either, that you're an intolerant asshole or that you indeed need to convince others in order to quell the insecurities you have. Or both.

My efforts involved convicing GP that he isn't using properly his own native language, and of course never (read it: NE-VER) contemplated the idea of "graphics should take top priority". It's quite clear now that you lack the intellectual skills to understand such an elementary English as mine, so I'd suggest you to take some reading comprehension lessons before replying with pointless condescending lines if you happen to dislike crankiness. Alright?





It is so difficult to find people who are real fans of video games as a whole. Here we have a sequel to a shooting franchise that hasn't had a release in over 10 years. One that we all thought was gone forever. Inspite of this people across many boards are making doofus proclamations about TFVI needing to meet or exceed Border Down or Gradius V to be worthy of a release. Hell, there are even those refusing to acknowledge ThunderForce VI unless it came to a none Sony platform, because they can't let go of the DC vs PS2 rivalry from years back. This is just insanity in my opinion.


I don't know about the many other boards, but what you had here was a quite knowledgeable person saying that TFVI looks way too awful for Thunder Force standards, which is quite accurate, if you ask me. It just happens that people like Zinger are getting tired of so many cheap revivals which pretend once and again to ignore some essential principles of the titles they try to revive. So your "comments" were totally misplaced at best.

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Postby lordnikon » Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:22 am

Recap wrote:Read, du...

Sorry that is as far as I got. I don't post at gamefaqs or IGN, so I don't participate in threads that sink to this level. Let me know when you can have a conversation that is higher than that of a 14 year old.


So, to everyone else: Notice the pictures of the lava levels? These look sort of barren, but I think they could be interesting in motion if they animate certain parts of it. For instance in the background it looks like steam is bellowing up from the lava, sort of like steam pockets. I think this, coupled with burning embers floating up from moving lava, could make the level really cool. Though it is nearly impossible to discern whether this has been implemented based on the current screens.

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Postby sven666 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:50 am

lordnikon wrote: Let me know when you can have a conversation that is higher than that of a 14 year old.


haha.. dont hold your breath mate :P

its really hard to judge a game by screenshots alone, broken thunder for instance looked decent from its screens but once it came to motion it was hard to believe it was even the same game (yeurgh!), but yeah the gfx as they stand now look a little under the PS2s finest so theres no real reason why there shouldnt be lots of animation :)

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Postby Recap » Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:35 pm

sven666 wrote:haha.. dont hold your breath mate :P


Psst, you've already proven here you're another clueless dumbass. There's no need for ulterior evidences, thanks.

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Postby sven666 » Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:18 pm

Recap wrote:you've already proven here you're another clueless dumbass.


haha yeah you sure got my number on thatone.

one thing has nothing to do with the other tho..

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Postby RadiantSvgun » Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:13 pm

sven666 wrote:
lordnikon wrote: Let me know when you can have a conversation that is higher than that of a 14 year old.


haha.. dont hold your breath mate :P

its really hard to judge a game by screenshots alone, broken thunder for instance looked decent from its screens but once it came to motion it was hard to believe it was even the same game (yeurgh!), but yeah the gfx as they stand now look a little under the PS2s finest so theres no real reason why there shouldnt be lots of animation :)


Yeah, gameplay videos would be nice. The magazine screenshots really aren't enough.

Never heard of Broken Thunder.
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Postby zinger » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:03 pm

lordnikon wrote:My comments to zinger were an attempt to discourage elitest trolling within the shooting community.

It is so difficult to find people who are real fans of video games as a whole. Here we have a sequel to a shooting franchise that hasn't had a release in over 10 years. One that we all thought was gone forever. Inspite of this people across many boards are making doofus proclamations about TFVI needing to meet or exceed Border Down or Gradius V to be worthy of a release. O_o Hell, there are even those refusing to acknowledge ThunderForce VI unless it came to a none Sony platform, because they can't let go of the DC vs PS2 rivalry from years back. This is just insanity in my opinion.

How can we not be elitist when it comes to the things that interest us the most? You're the one who started all the namecalling; fourteen-year-olds, fakes, disloyal Cave fans or whatever that was, and you keep bringing up comments from god knows what boards, and shove them into our mouths. When I, in spite of your attitude, answered all your comments, you ignored my post. If you can't understand what we're saying you can either do your homework or keep the bullshit to yourself. Show some respect!

As for the music, I could try to find out who's composing it. It's not unlikely to be somone from FactoryNoise, I'd say.

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Postby JoshF » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:49 pm

Zinger you should play less shooting games, that way your opinion won't matter and we can all be happy and unchallenged.

Also, it looks good. The biggest thing to worry about is the return of Free-range.


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