Totally awesome discussion about Technos' arcade beat-em-ups

Talk about all aspect of Japanese games.

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Postby Recap » Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:57 pm

Fact is: You need work on reading comprehension.

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Postby sven666 » Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:01 pm

RadiantSvgun wrote:
Off topic, Cave makes me sick doing shit like that. But what are you gonna do?


me too man, me too :(
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Postby Gaijin Punch » Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:05 pm

I would have preferred to use "ethic" but then I learned English lexicon doesn't have that word as an adjective. Anyway, answering your question: "Because 'gamers' do know that buying 2nd-hand instead of new doesn't benefit AT ALL the people who created with effort your very game". Quite simple.


Ethical is fine, and pretty interchangeable in this place. It still doesn't change the fact that saying "buying 2nd hand is unethical" is highly opinionated at best... in our day and age, I would say it is just wrong. And I've stated the economic laws determine what benefits and doesn't the market. It's not like they tried to get reselling stopped totally... just for X months after release as they know to keep the market alive there has to be a second hand market.

What about arcade operators? Are they unethical for selling their boards when they're done? Shops like GFront and Mak still service game centers around the country, buy and sell them boards and whatnot. I'm curious how this plays into the arcade scene.

Do you know more than they?


Heaps, apparently. Although this is the first time I've heard of a consumer backing up the industry or a corporation of any time saying that their lawsuit was b/c of unethical behavior AGAINST them. Other than the RIAA anyway.
Last edited by Gaijin Punch on Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby dcharlie » Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:18 pm

Your fascination in myself is well known by all, yeah. I already suggested you to get your obsessions checked, didn't I.


i am constantly baffled at how you fail to understand the interactive facet of message boards and how you fall back constantly on the fact that people react to your ill informed ROM based knowledge set and massive superiority complex and arrogant and offensive attitude.

this is as simple as :

Annoying and ill informed poster is annoying and ill informed.

Yet when someone calls you out it's because they are stalking/obsessed/whatever?

your opinion of yourself is only shared by you unfortunately.

"Because 'gamers' do know that buying 2nd-hand instead of new doesn't benefit AT ALL the people who created with effort your very game". Quite simple.


and as a rom kid you have any authority in this department because....?
what percentage of your collection is actually -legitimately- bought?

I'm sorry but you give up any right to talk about ethics of second hand games the second you are a self confessed romkid. I find it funny that many of your detractors have been proven so correct , and by your own hand. Anyways, at least the recycling of cash can potentially promote proper 1st hand sales. ROM downloaders are the lowest common demominator - any idiot can do it and then spout off about it, and there is no economic stimulous.
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Postby undamned » Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:11 pm

I like Double Dragon so much... I bought it USED!!!111
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Postby dcharlie » Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:17 pm

i did too - i let the side down! :D
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Postby JoshF » Sat Aug 09, 2008 1:59 am

lol @ "romkid" and dcharlie. Being a romkid lets me go to college and enjoy my free time concurrently in this one life, but I also go on eBay and support the price gouging collectors when I can. Never pretended it gave me any moral authority though. Nerd cred, maybe.

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Not paying a million dollars to look at this picture? For shame, jpegkid.

Now, back to Technos.

I just found out the Mega Drive version of the first Double Dragon is pretty good. Looks like it was made from scratch too, like all those Amiga ports of Japanese arcade games, except it's good. You're also able to do a greater variety of moves without getting punished, and the leeching glitch around the girders seems to have been fixed, or at least it's harder to do (they don't reset in a way that you can keep doing it repeatedly without some work.)

Too bad these guys didn't handle the second port. :yuck:
Last edited by JoshF on Sat Aug 09, 2008 2:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Gaijin Punch » Sat Aug 09, 2008 2:00 am

What about DDII on the PC-Engine? Something I have never, ever even looked at.
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Postby JoshF » Sat Aug 09, 2008 2:04 am

It's really good.

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Postby Shou » Sat Aug 09, 2008 2:06 am

Gaijin Punch wrote:What about DDII on the PC-Engine? Something I have never, ever even looked at.


Not that great and the arranged music is pretty blah. It's a bit like an arranged version of the Famicom port but not as good.

Genesis DD1 is nice but the music is appalling.
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Postby RadiantSvgun » Sat Aug 09, 2008 2:11 am

Gaijin Punch wrote:What about DDII on the PC-Engine? Something I have never, ever even looked at.


You can't play it expecting Arcade Double Dragon II. It is a remake of NES Double Dragon II. I used to have it, and its damn good. Takes some getting used to the visuals though.
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Postby Recap » Sat Aug 09, 2008 5:08 pm

Gaijin Punch wrote:
I would have preferred to use "ethic" but then I learned English lexicon doesn't have that word as an adjective. Anyway, answering your question: "Because 'gamers' do know that buying 2nd-hand instead of new doesn't benefit AT ALL the people who created with effort your very game". Quite simple.


Ethical is fine, and pretty interchangeable in this place. It still doesn't change the fact that saying "buying 2nd hand is unethical" is highly opinionated at best... in our day and age, I would say it is just wrong. And I've stated the economic laws determine what benefits and doesn't the market. It's not like they tried to get reselling stopped totally... just for X months after release as they know to keep the market alive there has to be a second hand market.

What about arcade operators? Are they unethical for selling their boards when they're done? Shops like GFront and Mak still service game centers around the country, buy and sell them boards and whatnot. I'm curious how this plays into the arcade scene.

Do you know more than they?


Heaps, apparently. Although this is the first time I've heard of a consumer backing up the industry or a corporation of any time saying that their lawsuit was b/c of unethical behavior AGAINST them. Other than the RIAA anyway.



I was expecting dumb-Charlie to totally miss the point as usual, but I really thought my previous post would be enough for you. Once again -- I don't give a shit about anyone's morals, habits or possesions. I was just pointing out that buying a second-hand video-game is as "unethical" as downloading a romset since the industry just doesn't want you to do neither. That the retards who feel morally offended for finding out you're using roms are usually the ones who even rise obscure businesses around 2nd-hand video-games, which is, to this day, the actual and only cancer for the Japanese industry (not because _I_ say that, but because _it_ says so). That's all, seriously. No need for deeper readings.

Said that, the "it has to be a 2nd-hand market" argument is as poor as your forum moderation skills, if you ask me. There are many other industries where there's no place for 2nd-hand markets at all. Try to figure out the scenario: No 2nd-hand video-game market (nor piracy, obviously) => many more people buying new since the user base is there and the Japanese is a well solvent society. That normally would imply price reductions since the makers wouldn't need to cover the losses caused by side markets, which would attract even the few users who stopped buying once they lost the possibilty of reselling their games.

As for the specific arcade industry, that's without hesitation quite a bit different, but given that most arcade makers are indeed domestic game makers, I think it's not hard to imagine where they ultimately would place their opinions.

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Postby Gaijin Punch » Sat Aug 09, 2008 5:27 pm

I was just pointing out that buying a second-hand video-game is as "unethical" as downloading a romset since the industry just doesn't want you to do neither.


The industry would love me to pour maximum funds into their account with them doing minimal work. It doesn't make it unethical for me to do it. Besides, here in Japan there's multiple levels of wholesale... so everyone past the distributor that buys it directly from the factory is the unethical party? The publisher has made their money once it sells it once.

Said that, the "it has to be a 2nd-hand market" argument is as poor as your forum moderation skills, if you ask me.


That is absolute gold, considering where it's coming from.

There are many other industries where there's no place for 2nd-hand markets at all.


And zero of them are entertainment media. Again, I see what you think you mean... no need to explain it further. You're never going to convince me or anyone that not only is it not poison, it's not unethical in the least. In fact, rip the 2nd hand market out of the industry and all of a sudden you've got loads of shops shutting, people out of jobs, a stock pile of plastic crap once it's unused (but we'll leave environmental implications out) etc. etc. Seriously this is high school economics.
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Postby Recap » Sat Aug 09, 2008 5:58 pm

Gaijin Punch wrote:
I was just pointing out that buying a second-hand video-game is as "unethical" as downloading a romset since the industry just doesn't want you to do neither.


The industry would love me to pour maximum funds into their account with them doing minimal work. It doesn't make it unethical for me to do it. Besides, here in Japan there's multiple levels of wholesale... so everyone past the distributor that buys it directly from the factory is the unethical party? The publisher has made their money once it sells it once.


Well, as I think it's quite obvious, I've been always talking about the game makers industry. As for the rest, I'm sorry but can't find any sense. Maybe it's just me, though.




Said that, the "it has to be a 2nd-hand market" argument is as poor as your forum moderation skills, if you ask me.


That is absolute gold, considering where it's coming from.


I believe I need you to also develope that if you want to be understood.





Again, I see what you think you mean... no need to explain it further. You're never going to convince me or anyone that not only is it not poison, it's not unethical in the least. In fact, rip the 2nd hand market out of the industry and all of a sudden you've got loads of shops shutting, people out of jobs, a stock pile of plastic crap once it's unused (but we'll leave environmental implications out) etc. etc. Seriously this is high school economics.


Hmm. "No need for it", but you're still missing the whole point, thinking I'm actually talking about ethics or something. Read!: I'm not blaming 2nd-hand market users. I'm just laughing at 2nd-hand market users who attack rom users; for either, hypocrites or retards! Now?

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Postby Gaijin Punch » Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:43 am

I believe the discussion goes far beyond the scope of an internet forum. You're comparing two things, saying the one that isn't even close to illegal is the unethical one... or at least inferring it's the more unethical one.

I'm not saying that law dictates ethics full stop. It doesn't, but it is a useful guide in our day and age. I could easily argue and have just as much ground to say that preventing someone from selling something they own is unethcial.
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Postby Recap » Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:48 am

Gaijin Punch wrote:I believe the discussion goes far beyond the scope of an internet forum. You're comparing two things, saying the one that isn't even close to illegal is the unethical one... or at least inferring it's the more unethical one.


Horseshit, GP. That's just what you wanted to "infer". How in the world could I say that buying 2nd-hand games is more "unethical" than downloading roms!? This forum is full of idiots, but you can be sure I'm not one of them.

Recap wrote:I was just pointing out that buying a second-hand video-game is as "unethical" as downloading a romset since the industry just doesn't want you to do neither.


Do you see now that you need to read twice (maybe more)?



but it is a useful guide in our day and age.


I laughed there, I'm sorry.

[/quote]

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Postby dcharlie » Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:56 am

:)
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Postby Macaw » Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:26 am

I found some vids of the JPN version of the arcade version of Combatribes on nico video ( http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm1583759 )

Far less retarded than the US version. The Jap version appears to give you 150 life after each stage (the US version doesn't, making it nearly impossible to clear)
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Postby Ganelon » Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:59 pm

Did the arcade Combatribes ever explain the story? I seem to remember being totally baffled by the last boss and only understanding the situation when I read the arcade flyer and played the SNES version. Though before seeing the flyer, I was so sure that Nintendo had made them do it just so they could claim players weren't actually hurting women.

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Postby Macaw » Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:26 pm

There could be cinematics in the jpn version that arnt in the US version, but who knows. Need to play the jpn version to be sure (which isn't in mame)
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Postby Shou » Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:24 am

Macaw wrote:There could be cinematics in the jpn version that arnt in the US version, but who knows. Need to play the jpn version to be sure (which isn't in mame)


I have the JP PCB and can almost 1CC it outside of the ridiculous final stage/boss. Life recovery is dependent upon the dip settings of course. No cinemas inbetween stages and just a short ending sequence saying that the 3 disappeared afterwards.
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Postby Recap » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:21 pm

Macaw wrote:Also, I've gotten past the initial 3 stages in Shadow Force and never experienced the forest stage hang myself. Graphics glitches I'm sure there are at points.


Shadow Force's emulation has just got an update:

Shadow Force changes: [Pierpaolo Prazzoli]
- Added irqs ack
- Implemented raster irq
- Fixed coin2 and service input not working during the game
- Added watchdog
- Fixed visible area
- Added video enable and irqs enable flags



It's the right time to ask for other fixes which may still be needed. This guy usually listens and likes bugfixing. Maybe you'd want to check it out and report them here? It's also the only game in this thread which runs at 60 Hz. Version is 127u2:

http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/sh ... =5&o=&vc=1


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