[DS/3DS] Monitor Output

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Re: [DS/3DS] Monitor Output

Postby sven666 » Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:52 pm

Probotector anyone?
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Re: [DS/3DS] Monitor Output

Postby Macaw » Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:46 pm

Haha Sven I think a lot of us are trying to block out those memories...

Well at least Konami maintained the high art standard with the altered sprites, but screw 50hz!
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Re: [DS/3DS] Monitor Output

Postby CIT Seven Force » Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:55 pm

I always thought "Probotector" sounds like some device a proctologist would use.

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Re: [DS/3DS] Monitor Output

Postby CTN » Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:44 pm

citcelaid wrote:I always thought "Probotector" sounds like some device a proctologist would use.


It's a pain in the ass for sure.

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Re: [DS/3DS] Monitor Output

Postby Macaw » Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:12 am

So I decided to refresh my memory on the difficulty of NES Contra 1 as I hadn't played it since I was about 6. Cleared it in about 30 minutes. Lost all my continues the first time through, then the 2nd time through I was about 1 life off from a 1cc.

Still laughing at those piece of crap reviews that say Contra 4 doesn't provide as much challenge lol. After playing both games side by side I can say Contra 4 is roughly 5 billion times harder.

Also playing Shattered Soldier again. I had forgotten how freakin depressing the atmosphere is compared to the other games in the series, which is cool. Playing it almost feels like your trapped in the movie Eraserhead, haha. The ultra tactical approach with the weapons and R-type level of memorization required for every segment makes it feel totally different to all the other games.
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Re: [DS/3DS] Monitor Output

Postby SuperDeadite » Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:35 am

I hated Contra 4, but mostly because I kept dieing from the screen gap. Beyond that the design just felt like it was pure pandering to NES/SNES fans.

The fami cart versions are personal favorites, but they are not difficult in the slightest. Maybe challenging at first, but damn easy imo.

Shattered Soldier (Shin?) is my pick for the best of the series. That game just got it perfectly right.

And "Z" is the best RTS game ever.
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Re: [DS/3DS] Monitor Output

Postby Macaw » Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:45 am

SuperDeadite wrote:I hated Contra 4, but mostly because I kept dieing from the screen gap. Beyond that the design just felt like it was pure pandering to NES/SNES fans.


The first 3 stages are definitely pandering to nostalgia for the first NES game, but the rest of the game totally switches into Spirits/Hard Corps territory (moreso Spirits though indeed)

Anyway I think SuperDeadite is the winner of this thread, that sudden last sentence made me laugh out loud.
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Re: [DS/3DS] Monitor Output

Postby JoshF » Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:24 am

Here's my list, out of the games I've played.

1. Hard Corps: Uprising
2. Shin Contra
3. Neo Contra
4. Contra Spirits
5. Contra: The Hard Corps
6. Contra (FC)
7. Super Contra (FC)
8. Super Contra (AC)
9. Contra (AC)
10. Contra (GB)
11: Contra Force

Contra 4 will probably always be unplayable for me. It could very well be awesome, but the screen gap nullifies any interest I'd have in playing it. I feel similarly about the Rockman Zero series, which from what I've seen would be the best Rockman games if not for the pitiful GBA resolution.

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Re: [DS/3DS] Monitor Output

Postby Macaw » Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:25 pm

Hahahahahahah what the fuck I was just going through a cupboard of random dusty snes shit I had from a million years ago and found a boxed Contra Spirits I completely forgot about. I think I got it when I was like 12 or something from a local dude selling a random load of snes shit that included some Japan region stuff, cause I also found a Japanese cart of Goof Troop haha.

Gotta dust of my snes and converter and run some Spirits on a huge screen. I haven't played an authentic snes in over 5 years.
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Re: [DS/3DS] Monitor Output

Postby skykid » Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:08 am

It's beyond belief that Icycalm, one who so aggressively preaches the value of good criticism and literature, is unable to produce either. I've never seen an individual trip over their own balls on so many occasions, and in public no-less, yet still attempt to maintain the profile of an ordained being. But then these are commonalities amongst people afflicted with more severe mental conditions than grating egoism.

Contra 4 is superb. Anyone who doesn't think so simply hasn't invested enough time to clear the first couple of stages. Wayforward brought together a bundle of influences from classic era Contra and worked out a lengthy, robust and fresh experience littered with wonderful set-pieces. Above all else, it's designed around classic arcade style memorisation, proving both enjoyable and rewarding if you learn the weaponry and push beyond the second stage. Once it clicks, it's on fire, impossible to put down. It had me hooked until I got the 1cc: surprising, since initially I struggled to find a rhythm with it. It has issues, too, however: it's not perfectly formed. The dead zone is problematic and there are instances where elements of stage design can kill you almost unfairly - but thankfully these are fleeting.

Uprising on the other hand? Anyone who calls that a masterpiece, seek help. Go to a doctor, tell him you used to have critical faculties and you don't know where you misplaced them.

It's not the worst game in the world, but one of the worst Contra games? Absolutely. It doesn't even deserve the name - it's done nothing to earn it.

It's absolutely plagued with problems, from underpowered weaponry, ill-designed character attributes, terrible enemy placement and stage layout, absolutely rubbish pacing and static, overlong stages, boss fights that have had hardly any robust play-testing, an extra life system that acts as an in-game patch to try to cover up all the fuck-ups, and a completely broken points system that can be exploited ad-infinitum.

In addition, it's entire aural and visual aesthetic smacks of shitty Arc System J-Rock, a trashy elevator muzac styled affair that proves about as inimitable as herpes. That's certainly not Contra.

It's also a horribly sluggish, messy expose, with none of the balancing of Konami's best iterations (and certainly not the solid testing that went into Contra 4) and oodles of frustrating design elements that castrate the promising ideas at its core. Simply adding fucking autofire would have dramatically improved it for the better, but this, like so many other errors that should have been ironed out before finalising the beta, simply weren't. Arc System clobbered their hard work, it's a shame.

Rising Mode is utterly concessionary, an apology for the backwardness of arcade, but ends up being an unrewarding time sink to try to acquire weaponry and abilities the game should have just presented you from the outset. It's not a rewarding experience, and payoff is what gaming is all about.

So there you have it. Go visit Insomnia.ac if you want to read two incorrect and poorly written Contra pieces: Contra 4 and HC Uprising. Both criticised incorrectly, both scored incorrectly. Bookmarks on three everyone, debit cards on five.

But then Icycalm, master of all videogame critical analysis, thinks it's a masterpiece. A masterpiece. The very definition of the word denoting a seminal work of almost pure perfection, blemish free.

Perhaps he doesn't understand its meaning. A two week ban and a couple of dictionaries should do the trick.
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Re: [DS/3DS] Monitor Output

Postby Pretas » Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:43 pm

Contra 4 is superb. Anyone who doesn't think so simply hasn't invested enough time to clear the first couple of stages. Wayforward brought together a bundle of influences from classic era Contra and worked out a lengthy, robust and fresh experience littered with wonderful set-pieces.

It's obvious that your opinion of the game has been unfairly swayed by it pandering to your nostalgia. I guess this is how people get suckered into buying crap like Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing.

Above all else, it's designed around classic arcade style memorisation

Well, no shit. It's not like there's hundreds of other arcade memorizers out there. What actually matters is whether they're designed well, which you fail to address in specific or concrete terms, something Florence and Peters' review was at least able to do.

proving both enjoyable and rewarding if you learn the weaponry

Translation: "use the spread gun."

and push beyond the second stage.

If an arcade-style game takes more than two stages to start getting interesting, then that's a drain on one's patience and a serious flaw. This is what killed Gynoug for me. In a sub-mediocre game like Contra 4, it especially hampered my willingness to continue playing.

No disagreements about Uprising, though. Although Arc makes amazing fighters, they were clearly way in over their heads. WayForward at least had some decent experience designing 2D platform action games, even if none of them were that good.
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Re: [DS/3DS] Monitor Output

Postby skykid » Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:59 pm

Pretas wrote:It's obvious that your opinion of the game has been unfairly swayed by it pandering to your nostalgia. I guess this is how people get suckered into buying crap like Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing.


Trash. You don't know what you're talking about.
I 1cc'd the game because it was a fine game. I don't waste an ounce of my time on anything that comes off mediocre, whether I paid good money for it or not. Life's too short.

It's got nothing to do with nostalgia, and everything to do with looking for a DS title that would suit my arcade gaming sensibilities. I wanted solid scrolling shooter challenge, adventure, excitement and action, and it delivers on all fronts. Better than that, it lived up to the Contra name, and felt like a successor to 3 (always baffles me when everyone says it doesn't encompass Shin and Neo... why should it?) Soundtrack is surprisingly on form, too.

Pretas wrote:
Above all else, it's designed around classic arcade style memorisation

Well, no shit. It's not like there's hundreds of other arcade memorizers out there. What actually matters is whether they're designed well, which you fail to address in specific or concrete terms, something Florence and Peters' review was at least able to do.


Lol. You think that's a good review? Reads like its written by a fourteen year old. I can tell instantly from having finished the game that they didn't, and that's rather embarrassing for them and Insomnia. It takes more than 2 days to clear, for a start - no doubt about that whatsoever - and the fact they inserted the line "oh, we finished it" is an instant giveaway. There's nothing concrete about the review's points because they didn't play it through, and it shows. They got frustrated three stages in, ditched it, and thought they were in a position to properly cover it. They weren't, and they didn't. There's nothing in there that qualifies the game's merit whatsoever, and it's a game with plenty of merit that's patently obvious to anyone who actually gave it more than a glance. It's not like it's a turn-off from the word go, it's just got a steep initial learning curve. Learn to play and you'll have nine lives by the third stage boss - it's not unfair by any stretch, and gets decidedly easier as you learn its pacing... much the same as any Contra, in-fact.

Action Button often fucks up reviews too, this one no different.

"I hated the game, personally, for my first two clumsy attempts, and then went on to get all the way to stage five on my next credit, and lord knows I’m not a rocket scientist."

That's a bare-faced lie. It's impossible to crack through the rocket finale of stage four on your first three credit attempts. There are a series of timings and handholds you need to move between as it changes trajectory, as well as being supremely accurate to where incoming missiles are coming from the bottom of the screen. It's one of the toughest spikes in the game - and directly after you have an enormous boss fight. He didn't do that on his first three credits, no way no how, and that puts the entire review's credibility in question - which isn't surprising, because it's all completely wrong, including the scoreline.

Hold on... why am I even saying this, it's written by the internet's no.1 Japanophile jerk-off reviewer, Tim Rogers. :whack:

As for memorisers, back at you: no shit sherlock. No-one's saying other arcade memorisers don't exist, I'm just pointing out that Wayforward understood how to get a good balanced arcade shooter going in 2009.

Pretas wrote:
proving both enjoyable and rewarding if you learn the weaponry

Translation: "use the spread gun."


Depends on the situation. I opted for the missiles for several bosses and sections. The spread gun is great for certain aspects of the stages, but the corridor levels (which are FAR superior to the original Contra - makes me laugh how that crappy review wrote them off) really need the machine gun at certain points, and missiles in others. In the normal levels I would switch out spread gun for missiles regularly, because they tear holes through bosses like little else.

Pretas wrote:
and push beyond the second stage.

If an arcade-style game takes more than two stages to start getting interesting, then that's a drain on one's patience and a serious flaw. This is what killed Gynoug for me. In a sub-mediocre game like Contra 4, it especially hampered my willingness to continue playing.


Except it doesn't take two stages. It's interesting right from the word go. The first stage is so short, you can be through it in a minute, the second stage gets you to learn how to pick weapons and take your time on the overhead bars and wait for gaps in the enemy lines, before going into a tough vertical ascension that culminates in a roaring boss fight. What's the problem?

It's not a masterpiece, it's got a set of niggling issues, just nothing to detract heavily from the whole. The review's description of the dead zone between screens as "game breaking" is completely laughable. If they can't learn to avoid a couple of bullets on repeat play, they have no business playing games, letalone reviewing them.

As I said, you're calling an excellent game sub-mediocre: you don't know what you're talking about. It's not about nostalgia, it's about appreciating good gaming in any form.

Pretas wrote:
No disagreements about Uprising, though. Although Arc makes amazing fighters, they were clearly way in over their heads. WayForward at least had some decent experience designing 2D platform action games, even if none of them were that good.


Glad you're with me there. I can't waste any more breath raking that one and all of its supporters over a bed of nails. Some people like to cite superplay runs that took 150 hours of effort to achieve to indicate its value. That much time making a broken game look good doesn't indicate value, it indicates a broken game.

Uprising is borderline between being outright bad and marginally okay. It's neither, just distinctly average and not really worth investing the amount of time it requires to make headway. Needed a patch to basically overhaul all of its core components and it may have been worth the effort.
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Re: [DS/3DS] Monitor Output

Postby layzee » Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:46 pm

Back on topic... sort of.

I recently bought an Ouya console and it completely met my expectations!

i.e. it was shit¹

And I have close to 0 care for indie games (I'm more of a big budget games guy) so that makes it even worse (the whole or main point of Ouya is Indie after all).

I've stopped caring about/following emulation for several years now so I was somewhat surprised to learn that there was a, or rather two, Nintendo DS Ouya-based emulators. Yes! DS on a TV! That's a stroke of genius because the Ouya console's controller has a touchpad that should be able to imitate the stylus touch functions of the DS console.

Unfortunately, the DS emulator I tried was essentially unplayable with slow graphics and sound/music. I'm not sure whether it is because the DS emulator is some sort of incomplete beta version or because the Ouya's hardware is too weak to handle DS emulation. Word on the Internet though is that the Ouya hardware should be powerful enough to handle it. The emulator does have a few useful features though such as devoting the entire TV screen to display only the top or bottom DS screen. The "stylus" function seems to work so as far as touch-based gameplay is concerned and in the absence of the stylus-pen, the Ouya's controller should be fit for the job.

The aforementioned DS emulator is available on the Ouya marketplace. The second DS emulator apparently is better but is not on the Ouya marketplace and must be "side-loaded". Anyone tried it? I'd try it myself, but I have to learn this side-load shit first.

For me, the Ouya is good for 3 things: XBMC, emulation³ and web-browsing^ (not a fan of the default Android browser though).

¹I only bought it because it was in a bundle² and after I sell the rest of the stuff, I'll have a small profit plus gaining an "asset" for "free" (the Ouya console).

²Actually, I also bought it for XBMC for movie viewing/YouTube on a TV. XBMC is reason enough to buy an Ouya console. I was previously using XBMC on the original big black Xbox which can't handle the newer HD video encodes (h264).

³Original big black Xbox is just as/almost good for that though honestly.

^PS3 has a web browser too but too bad it is shit, never updated, and crashes frequently.
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Re: [DS/3DS] Monitor Output

Postby layzee » Sun Mar 06, 2016 6:42 pm

Back even more on topic.

I didn't buy that 偽トロキャプチャ (Nisetro Capture) hardware discussed three years ago, but I did end up getting the actual official IS Nitro Capture. They say that "good comes to those who are patient", and it certainly applies here, price-wise.

Well, after having used it, what can I say. Nintendo DS games on a TV! And proper speakers! I will say though, that the graphics (and particularly the text) seems a bit blurry and less focused, but I guess this is to be expected since they're not meant to be played on a TV. It was tested using an official NIntendo S-Video cable on a particular model of Sony CRT (one of the best, if not the best). Honestly, I would say the sound (music) is the biggest most significant improvement.

Another thing worth mentioning is that one thing not to be underestimated is the annoyance of looking at both your TV and the DS screen if you only have one half of the two DS screens on your TV. For games that require active use of both screens, depending on how/where you sit/your overall gaming arrangements, it can be pretty tiring/annoying turning your eyes/head and looking at both screens back and forth, back and forth, for extended gamin' sessions.

I live in Australia so there are voltage differences when it comes to electronic devices. So for example, an American can simply plug the the Nitro Capture directly to his/her power port due to same/similar voltage standards as Japan. My situation requires a step-down converter. So, for those few seconds between not pressing the power switch and pressing it, I started (figuratively) sweating. Imagine I had that anime-style sweat drop next to my head. Theoretically this should work but what if it doesn't? What if I forgot something? What if I blow it up!? Thankfully, it's still alive and well, and my precious is currently safely stored away in its box, away from the elements.

Next on the Wish List: A 3DS version of the Nitro Capture.
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Re: [DS/3DS] Monitor Output

Postby schadenfreude » Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:18 am

That sounds awesome! Do you have any screenshots so I can get an idea of how blurry it looks? I'm curious because I got a PSPGo and cradle and cables and shit a few years ago just so I can play PSP games on the television through the Framemeister. It looks pretty respectable: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 32#p756632. I am wondering if you are getting similar results.

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Re: [DS/3DS] Monitor Output

Postby layzee » Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:15 pm

I don't have a way to capture screenshots directly from the television and taking standard photos of it isn't exactly a good alternative so I can't really help ya here. The blurriness isn't too bad I guess (on my set up at least). When it comes to text, well if we're talking about English text, then it shouldn't be a problem. But it's a different story for Japanese text, especially if Kanji is involved. It's honestly easier to read the Kanji on the small screen (naturally, since that's what is intended) than on the enlarged version. On the DS screen, the Kanji is small but should be sharp and the strokes definable, on the big screen, the Kanji may appear bigger but the strokes sort of bleed into each other. Of course, it depends on the game and the font style it uses as far as legibility goes.

Ever considered the Controller Adaptor Max (PSP-to-TV)? Made a thread on here some time ago. Or maybe you have and your own setup is better quality.
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Re: [DS/3DS] Monitor Output

Postby schadenfreude » Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:38 am

Nope, I've never heard of that device. I googled the name and found the thread in the first page of results: viewtopic.php?t=3063. Back when I researched PSP TV options, I read about how the PSP Go could pair via Bluetooth with a PS3 and a PS3 controller, thus omitting the need to use the PSP as a controller while outputting to the TV. I sold my PSP 1000 and used the money towards buying a Go, component cables, and the ripoff cradle (which essentially functions as a power base to charge the Go — charging cable not included! :finger: ).

The Controller Adapter Max is pricey and hard to find! If it produces better image quality than the solution I mentioned above, then I would consider getting it, but I like that my solution uses all Sony parts. Surely we can trust the Sony quality! Assuming you already own a PS3 (and don't mind pirating the UMD games you own due to lack of a UMD drive), it would be cheaper to buy the Go (used), component cables, and cradle — and if you really wanna be cheap, you could skip the cradle and just make sure the Go is charged enough for each play session.

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Re: [DS/3DS] Monitor Output

Postby layzee » Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:26 pm

schadenfreude wrote:The Controller Adapter Max is pricey and hard to find! If it produces better image quality than the solution I mentioned above, then I would consider getting it, but I like that my solution uses all Sony parts. Surely we can trust the Sony quality!


Yeah, they're harder to find these days. There were loads being offloaded on Y!J several years ago. The Controller Adapter Max is basically a charger for for the PSP-2000/3000 as well as the added function of using a PS2 controller for PSP games (albeit you have the advantage of wireless PS3 controllers). So that takes care of the PSP-as-a-controller problem. The PSP console still directly connects to the TV via component so it should have the same if not better video quality.

And I hear ya about using official genuine hardware. e.g. 3rd party PS1/PS2 memory cards failure rate > 1st party; my 3rd party component cable = works with PS1/PS2 but not PS3 < 1st party component cable works with all; official Nintendo Wii component cable image quality > 3rd party. It's worth paying extra for the peace of mind and not being burdened with potential BS.

Granted the CAM is 3rd party (Datel) but theoretically its main function is to act as an AC Adaptor for the PSP, so it shouldn't be a problem if you use an official component video cable and official Sony PS2 controller.

Anyway, I am at the moment patiently waiting for a 3DS version of the IS Nitro Capture and a similar thing for the PS-Vita. The PSVita-TV console which I own is decent but it has too many incompatible games so it's not a complete solution.
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