Fucking white people and ebay...

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Fucking white people and ebay...

Postby Gaijin Punch » Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:56 pm

Okay... so what's the state of Paypal/Ebay, and that entire shit storm these days? I bought a rather pricey piece of hardware, that came w/o the serial number for the software. In other words: useless. This is after it took the guy 3 weeks to get me the fucking item (I won the auction about 5 days before leaving Japan).

There's a few scenarios: The best being him getting back to me w/ the serial number in 5 minutes (although by tomorrow will suffice), the worst being me having to send it back. He sent it USPS ground and it arrived (eventually), so tracking shows it arrived. Will Paypal generally side w/ me in the event I send it back and file an "item is not as described" claim?
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Re: Fucking white people and ebay...

Postby sven666 » Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:31 pm

if he gives you grief just do a chargeback, paypal will side with you no matter what.
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Postby Greatsaintlouis » Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:01 pm

Yeah, in disputes PayPal generally sides with the buyer, especially if the item isn't as described (and it sounds like your case should be pretty watertight).
You also distaste me with passion!

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Postby xorthen » Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:18 am

Whoa Gaijin what are you implying when you say, "white people"? Are you a self hating white? Liberal TV getting to you? :) :P

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Postby Gaijin Punch » Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:38 am

Well, we're still the majority in the states, so whities will take the blame. It's pretty hilarious, honestly.

Anyway, the guy has at least contacted me, and is looking for the serial number. That's about all right now.
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Postby Ganelon » Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:15 am

I wouldn't send anything back until after a dispute has been filed and reached its conclusion. Also make sure you start the dispute so that it ends before 60-90 days are up (whatever your CC's chargeback period is) so that you can get your money back regardless.

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Postby xorthen » Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:37 am

Yeah Gaijin there are some sheisty shmucks on ebay man. Some dude I sold Yakuza 3 to over 4th of July weekend tried to file a dispute because the auction ended on a holiday and I was on vacation until the following Tuesday. So basically I tell the guy I shipped it out priority and I gave him a tracking number and he then cancels his account and tries to get his money back from paypal. All the while I have a negative paypal balance of 38 bucks and I had to call Paypal to fix the issue. It turns out that it was a fraudulent buyer who had me ship the item to California and the name on file with ebay was a guy from Singapore. Needless to say ebay has a privacy policy and wouldn't tell me the name of the perpetrator and I was lucky to have shipped with tracking otherwise that guy would have given me a negative balance and gotten a free game.

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Postby layzee » Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:00 pm

While it is arguably true that in the past, eBay/PayPal always/almost always allow the buyers to win in any/most PayPal disputes they open, these days eBay sellers have a bit more protection from scammers, assuming they meet the requirements for the "Seller Protection Policy".

Whether you will succeed in your "Item significantly not as described" claim remains to be seen. In any case, the correct procedure would be to:

1) Open a PayPal Dispute.
2) If the above was unsatisfactory, then the PayPal Dispute can be escalated to a PayPal Claim.

PayPal User Agreement wrote:13.4 Dispute Resolution. If you are unable to resolve the problem directly with the Seller, go to the Resolution Center and follow this process:

Open a Dispute. Open a Dispute within 45 days of the date you made the payment for the item you would like to dispute.

Escalate the Dispute to a Claim. If you and the Seller are unable to come to an agreement, escalate the Dispute to a Claim within 20 days after opening the dispute.


Under a PayPal Claim, PayPal themselves will investigate the transaction and any decision they make (siding with the buyer or siding with the seller) is final. Generally, you would want to make a PayPal claim if you know you're going to win because you know the seller stuffed up somewhere. Under a PayPal dispute, the buyer and seller merely communicate to find a mutual agreement without any communication from PayPal.

Finally:

3) As mentioned in earlier posts, if payment was made using a credit card, the 3rd option is to initiate a chargeback (60-90 days), getting your money back by bypassing PayPal entirely.

When a transaction goes wrong and a PayPal Dispute/Claim is made, PayPal does not take any risk. If a scammer buyer wins, then they keep the item and money (and the seller loses). If a scammer seller wins, they also keep the item and money (and the buyer loses). PayPal won't lose anything and may or may not win (from the fees) so they are generally indifferent to both situations.

When a credit card chargeback is made (a fee applies), it is possible for both the buyer and seller to keep their money, while PayPal is forced to take a loss if they can't retrieve funds from the seller because it has already been withdrawn or because the seller followed all policies correctly.

My concern is that, since the buyer went through a non-PayPal channel, PayPal will decide to suspend the buyer's account in order to mitigate any possible future losses from this particular account (i.e. PayPal doesn't like chargebacks).

I do not have enough information to know how likely this is to happen and I'm not sure whether different rules apply to different people (e.g. a casual buyer who does a credit chargeback twice will be suspended while a PayPal account that deals in many transactions may be left alone since it's still an asset for eBay/PayPal despite the losses from chargeback).

Just something to consider if you care (and you should) about the benefits of having a PayPal account.

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Postby Gaijin Punch » Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:29 pm

All's well that ends well. Took a while... a few calls to the manufacturer, and a lot of texting at at $.20 a pop, but I finally got it registered. Native Instruments went the extra mile in contacting the original owner (who had registered it) and got it unregistered which was awesome on their part! I think I was just the victim of a bit of laziness and or lack of time. I can live w/ that.
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